When will this shit end?

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

I feel like it's the attitude that leads to neverending lockdown for fear of the next mutation. The aim has to be to turn COVID into a flu like virus that can be dealt with by vaccinating the at risk population in September every year. It can't turn into forever lockdown and forever social distancing, that will lead to actual rioting.

And I feel like it's the attitude that lockdown needs to end ASAP before we're actually sure we have control of the thing that killed over a thousand a day for weeks. Way worse tha riots.

[Guest]

The government don’t want us in lockdowns, they want us out spending money and out working so they don’t have to pay workers furlough.

[squirrelarmy]

9 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I like that, except you have Corbyn and The Tories the wrong way round. The ideal would be between Starmer and Corbyn, not closer to the Tories.

Unless you like a cold bath?

An ice bath isn’t going to cause you long lasting damage while being in boiling water will unless you have some heat resistant clothing on (money and privilege)

Starmer may be too similar to the Tories for those who like a cold bath but he’s a lot better than the party in charge who have currently got the country at boiling point. 

[aj6658]

My thoughts (Data from NYT) https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/04/world/europe/covid-vaccine-uk-rate.html

• At the current rate everyone over 50+ and those under 65 at risk will have had jab 1 by March
• Everyone will have their first jab by the end of June. The majority of those who are at risk will have their second jab.
• The vaccine has shown to prevent serious illness if I remember correctly. So that means a tiny % of people will get hospitalised.  Think the data from Israel show that 97% of people dying from the virus haven't been vaccinated 
• People under 30 have been shown to be mostly unaffected if you don't have any underlying conditions so having one dose of the vaccine would be more than plenty.  
• So by the end of June we would have achieved herd immunity + sig risk groups have had 2nd jab and the rest one jab

 

If the above timetable is met we should be looking at no restrictions at the very latest by July ( by the time every one has had their first dose, you can cut the waiting time for second dose back to 3 weeks).  Frankly, you should be restriction free far earlier in May because we will have achieved herd immunity and the remaining population are resilient to the virus. 

If this timetable can be kept then there's no excuse for restrictions. 

 

[zahidf]

Just now, aj6658 said:

My thoughts (Data from NYT) https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/04/world/europe/covid-vaccine-uk-rate.html

• At the current rate everyone over 50+ and those under 65 at risk will have had jab 1 by March
• Everyone will have their first jab by the end of June. The majority of those who are at risk will have their second jab.
• The vaccine has shown to prevent serious illness if I remember correctly. So that means a tiny % of people will get hospitalised.  Think the data from Israel show that 97% of people dying from the virus haven't been vaccinated 
• People under 30 have been shown to be mostly unaffected if you don't have any underlying conditions so having one dose of the vaccine would be more than plenty.  
• So by the end of June we would have achieved herd immunity + sig risk groups have had 2nd jab and the rest one jab

 

If the above timetable is met we should be looking at no restrictions at the very latest by July ( by the time every one has had their first dose, you can cut the waiting time for second dose back to 3 weeks).  Frankly, you should be restriction free far earlier in May because we will have achieved herd immunity and the remaining population are resilient to the virus. 

If this timetable can be kept then there's no excuse for restrictions. 

 

Yes! But we have some people trying to push some ridiculous social distancing measures all year, if you're jabbed 'just in case '

Thankfully, I think most people will ignore that once they've had the jab. 

[squirrelarmy]

15 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

A far left labour is absolutely not the same as tory scum

Both of them are extreme positions which the majority can’t handle. An occasional ice bath has it’s benefits but an ideal solution would be somewhere in the middle of the two extremes which will keep more people content. 

[efcfanwirral]

30 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

 

To oversimplify things.

The Tories are like bathing in boiling water, Corbyn was like bathing in a bath of ice. 
 

Both polar opposites to each other and neither of them tolerable to the masses. 
 

Starmer is luke warm water. He isn’t the perfect temperature for taking a bath, he might be a little too hot for some but he’s going to be far more appealing to a wider range of people than either of the extreme opposites.
 

There will be those who love and thrive off the ice baths as well as those who have the protection to withstand the heat of the boiling water. With the case of Starmer he’s that little bit of cold water you add to your bath make it possible to climb in. 

To take the analogy further, with only 40% of votes making a government, you would have to drag the other 60% out of their boiling water or lukewarm and throw them immediately into ice water.

The country isn't ready for socialism so having the Labour leader be a full on socialist is just handing the Tories permanent power 

Edited February 12, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[Gilgamesh69]

3 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Both of them are extreme positions which the majority can’t handle. An occasional ice bath has it’s benefits but an ideal solution would be somewhere in the middle of the two extremes which will keep more people content. 

Yikes. Keeping "more people content" is not enough. What about all the marginalised members of society? Are we to just sweep them under the rug? There should be no "meeting in the middle" with tory scum 🤢

[squirrelarmy]

3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

To take the analogy further, with only 40% of votes making a government, you would have to drag the other 60% out of their boiling water or lukewarm and throw them immediately into ice water.

The country isn't ready for socialism so having the Labour leader be a full on socialist is just handing the Tories permanent power 

If you took someone from a hot place and threw them in ice cold water they would go into shock. 
 

You need to gradually get them to the temperature you want. 

[Leyrulion]

Petition for people to start being more specific when they talk about "restrictions" being removed or staying until Autumn.

I think everyone has different definitions, particularly the scientists.

[Gilgamesh69]

I'm gonna have to write a big treatise someday. One that will be the ultimate dunk upon the righties, the neolibs, the c*ntrists, and more. 100+ pages of pure impenetrable discourse that will  leave class enemies seething with rage at the realisation of how shit their views are (°ロ°)☝

[Suprefan]

Dont mind us we just ran out of vaccine.

 

 

 

[Paul ™]

7 hours ago, Memory Man said:

and for god sake shut the flipping borders!! Quarantine everyone not just red list

Never going to happen here. They can't even manage to do the partial half arsed measure properly with only 4 airports selected.

Imagine them trying to do it with all major airports, ports and the tunnel.

Booking pages are still down, 3 days before it's meant to launch. 

[Paul ™]

7 hours ago, xxialac said:

I's incredibly dark and disturbing having civilians policing how long other civilians are allowed to do some exercise or have a smoke.

Feel very sorry for the hotel workers, who didn't sign up to this.

I suspect there will be challenges to the whole process by some.

I reckon a few weeks of bad publicity for these hotels too will happen.

Covid-19: UK 'not learning lessons of Australia quarantine' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56030384

Whole thing probably scrapped after a month when the red list countries suddenly become safe again 😉

Edited February 12, 2021 by Paul ™
Added link

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, March Hare said:

The spread of ages in intensive care is a lot wider than most expect. Only c.25% of beds taken up by those over 70.

it's because the oldest patients aren't given the opportunity of ICU.

Its not representative of cases or severity while the system is overloaded.

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Starmer and the PLP seem to care more about winning than about actually making any progress.

without winning Labour cannot make any progress.

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Yikes. Keeping "more people content" is not enough. What about all the marginalised members of society? Are we to just sweep them under the rug? There should be no "meeting in the middle" with tory scum 🤢

what about meeting the electorate, the people who decide if Labour win or lose?

There's fuck all point demanding purity when you're wanting something which is never going to happen. It improves no one's life at all.

[Memory Man]

38 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

Never going to happen here. They can't even manage to do the partial half arsed measure properly with only 4 airports selected.

Imagine them trying to do it with all major airports, ports and the tunnel.

Booking pages are still down, 3 days before it's meant to launch. 

Very sad state of affairs isnt it. I wonder why exactly australia have managed it and we havent? I assume partly that the govt are being tight with cash and not willing to pay hotels and security enough to make it worth their while?

why is there talk of allowing people outside to exercise? You dont get to do that in Auz. 
why are the tunnels open for anything other than haulage? What acceptable reason does anyone not transporting goods have for currently driving in and out of france from the UK?

I honestly dont get where people flying in and out are going to or coming from and why. If theyre not UK nationals coming home from long term work then sorry, no entry. For now we should be saying no one is coming here. 

short term overseas work? Sorry no, furlough or quarantine back on arrival. Just for 6-8 months till we get everyone vaccinated and can open up

Edited February 12, 2021 by Memory Man

[JoeyT]

Once the over 50’s have been vaccinated rules or no rules those of us unvaccinated will be making choices based on our risk perception. I understand not everyone will be doing what they want but an increasing number will.

This number of people will only increase in majority as more vaccines are given and anyone who thinks that a significant portion of the country won’t be doing whatever they want once they too have had the vaccine is off their heads.

People want normal pre-COVID life back and vaccines are the only way this will be achieved. Therefore the more that are administered the more people will seek the rules to reflect this.

[Memory Man]

I get the whole doing what you want after being vaccinated but if nowhere is open you dont really have much choice do you? 

if you want to go round a mates for a few cans thats probably fine. if you want to see family you could do that most likely. You could do that now if you dont give a shit, no one will catch you.

If you instigate a mass gathering there is likely to be still significant fines till everyone is vaccinated

This could be the summer of the illegal rave but depends who is willing to get fined. 
 

lets see what the roadmap says and what tests should be passed before opening certain sectors. If and when vaccines do their jobs, stuff will gradually open as it should

Edited February 12, 2021 by Memory Man

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Memory Man said:

Very sad state of affairs isnt it. I wonder why exactly australia have managed it and we havent? I assume partly that the govt are being tight with cash and not willing to pay hotels and security enough to make it worth their while?

why is there talk of allowing people outside to exercise? You dont get to do that in Auz. 
why are the tunnels open for anything other than haulage? What acceptable reason does anyone not transporting goods have for currently driving in and out of france from the UK?

I honestly dont get where people flying in and out are going to or coming from any why. If theyre not UK nationals coming home from long term work then sorry, no entry. For now we should be saying no one is coming here. 

This has some info comparing the 2.

Covid-19: UK 'not learning lessons of Australia quarantine' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56030384

[Memory Man]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This has some info comparing the 2.

Covid-19: UK 'not learning lessons of Australia quarantine' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56030384

Thanks, what a shambles not following best practice and trying to do it on the cheap, standard tories.

nothing less than you’d expect from budget half arsed britain

[Paul ™]

13 minutes ago, Memory Man said:

why is there talk of allowing people outside to exercise? You dont get to do that in Auz. 

why are the tunnels open for anything other than haulage? What acceptable reason does anyone not transporting goods have for currently driving in and out of france from the UK?

I honestly dont get where people flying in and out are going to or coming from and why. If theyre not UK nationals coming home from long term work then sorry, no entry. For now we should be saying no one is coming here. 

People have the right to excercise and breathe fresh air surely? Even during imprisonment you get that. Remember a lot of hotel windows don't even open!

 

[Ryan1984]

17 minutes ago, Memory Man said:

I get the whole doing what you want after being vaccinated but if nowhere is open you dont really have much choice do you? 

if you want to go round a mates for a few cans thats probably fine. if you want to see family you could do that most likely. You could do that now if you dont give a shit, no one will catch you.

If you instigate a mass gathering there is likely to be still significant fines till everyone is vaccinated

This could be the summer of the illegal rave but depends who is willing to get fined. 
 

lets see what the roadmap says and what tests should be passed before opening certain sectors. If and when vaccines do their jobs, stuff will gradually open as it should

That final paragraph is exactly what we need to do. Wait it out to see what they have planned. It’s just 22 Feb (or the week beginning...) still feels so far away.

[JoeyT]

15 minutes ago, Memory Man said:

I get the whole doing what you want after being vaccinated but if nowhere is open you dont really have much choice do you? 

if you want to go round a mates for a few cans thats probably fine. if you want to see family you could do that most likely. You could do that now if you dont give a shit, no one will catch you.

If you instigate a mass gathering there is likely to be still significant fines till everyone is vaccinated

This could be the summer of the illegal rave but depends who is willing to get fined. 
 

lets see what the roadmap says and what tests should be passed before opening certain sectors. If and when vaccines do their jobs, stuff will gradually open as it should

I completely agree that what we’ll be able to do in terms of going to the pub etc. will be dictated by if they are open.

In terms of rules like only mixing with one other household, not allowed to go indoors to meet others, no hugging granny etc. I think these will be the ones which will be broken without batting an eyelid for most people.

It’s very much my belief that say for instance Easter bank hols has decent weather, rules will go out of the window for most. You can’t honestly tell me with the volume of the population vaccinated at that point there won’t be BBQ’s with attendances of all sizes / varied households going on? The amount of drink consumed will mean social distancing will become nothing more than a distant memory.