When will this shit end?

[squirrelarmy]

3 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Johnson had a choice:

1. "Boris saves Christmas!" news headline

+ Be responsible for a tonne of extra deaths and misery down the line but can always spin it away and talk up the 'British' vaccine'

2. "Boris cancels Christmas" news headline

+ Be unpopular at the time but then vindicated as the right decision later on and be retrospectively praised for showing strong leadership.

He chose the instant gratification route over the 'difficult but right thing to do' path. He always does...

Apart from he didn’t get either. He still ended up having to cancel Christmas for a lot of people and increased the case rate massively in the process through inaction and mixed messaging. 

[xxialac]

Sunday Johnson: No need for school closures.

Monday Johnson:  I hope we can steadily move out of lockdown and school closures after the February half term and starting, cautiously, to move regions down the tiers.

Wednesday Johnson-led debate : 31 March as an end date for lockdown

[zahidf]

 

[northernringo]

Has there been any evidence either way yet that the vaccine reduces how infectious someone is with the virus?

If I understand correctly, if a person has been vaccinated they can catch the virus but will not get a serious infection from it (ignoring the 90% data for now).

Can this person still transmit the virus to someone who has not been vaccinated though?

Seems to me the answer to this question will have huge ramifications as to how fast we return to 'normal'.

[Chef]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Remember those graphs from a week or so back, showing the variant breakdown by region at the start of December?  I've had a look around the internet and not found them, anyone know where to look for updated data?

Is this what you are after?

 

EDIT; sorry just noticed this is % testing positive, not actual numbers so maybe not. 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Chef

[DeanoL]

7 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Johnson had a choice:

1. "Boris saves Christmas!" news headline

+ Be responsible for a tonne of extra deaths and misery down the line but can always spin it away and talk up the 'British' vaccine'

2. "Boris cancels Christmas" news headline

+ Be unpopular at the time but then vindicated as the right decision later on and be retrospectively praised for showing strong leadership.

He chose the instant gratification route over the 'difficult but right thing to do' path. He always does...

I disagree. He dithered, and ended up choosing both. Which he what he always does!

[steviewevie]

17 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I still find it odd that teachers aren't on the list to be vaccinated early.

doesn't stop them catching it and spreading it to others? Don't they need to concentrate on the vulnerable to ease pressure on health services?

[jparx]

3 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Sunday Johnson: No need for school closures.

Monday Johnson:  I hope we can steadily move out of lockdown and school closures after the February half term and starting, cautiously, to move regions down the tiers.

Wednesday Johnson-led debate : 31 March as an end date for lockdown

That Andrew Marr interview was a total shambles. I can’t think of a politician coming off worse than that, and it came back to bite him in record time. It was obvious to anyone watching what was going to happen and yet again his government was catching up to the rest of us!

[jparx]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I disagree. He dithered, and ended up choosing both. Which he what he always does!

Yep totally. The “no more dither and delay” prime minister is the king of dithering and delaying.

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, northernringo said:

Has there been any evidence either way yet that the vaccine reduces how infectious someone is with the virus?

There's some that suggests this, but nothing scientifically rigorous as yet. It's not how the vaccine's success/failure was being measured. So it's "wait and see" - I agree it's a huge unanswered question that will really change how things play out.

[xxialac]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I disagree. He dithered, and ended up choosing both. Which he what he always does!

True but he still got his quick fix.

Everything he does focuses on the 'today' and what is in his own interest.

The tomorrow and other people - not interested.

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Johnson had a choice:

1. "Boris saves Christmas!" news headline

+ Be responsible for a tonne of extra deaths and misery down the line but can always spin it away and talk up the 'British' vaccine'

2. "Boris cancels Christmas" news headline

+ Be unpopular at the time but then vindicated as the right decision later on and be retrospectively praised for showing strong leadership.

He chose the instant gratification route over the 'difficult but right thing to do' path. He always does...

you got to remember a lot on his own party, including MPs and ministers, are anti-lockdown, well they were back in December. He has to get this stuff through parliament.

[DeanoL]

Quote

Children under 12 should be able to see friends, says children's commissioner

The children’s commissioner for England, Anne Longfield, said that despite them not being in school, efforts should be made to allow children to see friends as much as possible.

"For children, time has a different meaning - they remember that endless period during the first lockdown and how they missed their friends," she said, speaking on BBC Breakfast.

"We know that children were worried about missing friends but also about the future, what it would mean.”

Longfield added that the Government "really seriously" needed to look at the idea of letting children under 12 see their friends in person, as has been permitted in other countries already. "I want children to have as much contact as they can with their friends," she said, emphasizing the importance of talking to children in order to reassure them.

Does anyone else read things like this and wonder what planet some people are living on? 

[DeanoL]

Just now, xxialac said:

True but he still got his quick fix.

Everything he does focuses on the 'today' and what is in his own interest.

The tomorrow and other people - not interested.

Then a few weeks later:

[zahidf]

Olympics official says prioritise athletes for coronavirus jab so Tokyo Games can go ahead

Sky News understands conversations underway between government and British Olympic Association about securing athletes a Covid-19 vaccination; IOC member Dick Pound is confident the Olympics can still go ahead as long as athletes can be vaccinated beforehand

https://www.skysports.com/olympics/news/15234/12180389/olympics-official-says-prioritise-athletes-for-coronavirus-jab-so-tokyo-games-can-go-ahead

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Sunday Johnson: No need for school closures.

Monday Johnson:  I hope we can steadily move out of lockdown and school closures after the February half term and starting, cautiously, to move regions down the tiers.

Wednesday Johnson-led debate : 31 March as an end date for lockdown

It's really weird how on Sunday Johnson was saying it was safe to send kids to school...he must have been aware what was going on. That bit I really don't get. Why send kids in for one day.

[Jime1977]

2 minutes ago, northernringo said:

If I understand correctly, if a person has been vaccinated they can catch the virus but will not get a serious infection from it (ignoring the 90% data for now).

Can this person still transmit the virus to someone who has not been vaccinated though?

I think there was some suggestion that the virus would be less likely to be transmitted by those who have been vaccinated, but that it wasn’t confirmed as yet. I agree that will be a big factor in going back to normal, but presume it might take time to tell - as a lot of the initial people to be vaccinated presumably don’t mix as much as younger people do.

I also feel like a bit of a test case for this, as my wife works for the NHS and has been Pfizered (she’ll obviously still take precautions!)

[hodgey123]

I mentioned a few days ago that a problem in the November and latest lockdown compared to March is employers that continue to insist that they are essential workplaces and remain open. My girlfriend's workplace - a small homeware retailer in Devon - has sent around communications today to all employees in head office outlining how they are within the remit of a key worker, and have even provided documentation for the employees travelling to head office to supply to the police if they are questioned when travelling in! The same documentation and rationale has been provided to my mother and sister who also work at Costa Coffee who have been despicable in their treatment of staff throughout. 

It is absolutely outrageous and if it weren't for my girlfriend I would be 'anonymously' tipping this to the local press to see if they could drum up some negative PR. Costa workers clearly cannot work from home but that does not mean that they are essential, whereas my girlfriend worked from home perfectly during a recent period of self-isolation as did the rest of her office.

[hodgey123]

2 minutes ago, Jime1977 said:

I think there was some suggestion that the virus would be less likely to be transmitted by those who have been vaccinated, but that it wasn’t confirmed as yet. I agree that will be a big factor in going back to normal, but presume it might take time to tell - as a lot of the initial people to be vaccinated presumably don’t mix as much as younger people do.

I also feel like a bit of a test case for this, as my wife works for the NHS and has been Pfizered (she’ll obviously still take precautions!)

It is my basic understanding from the information available at present that individuals can still be infected but will not be hospitalised or die. That is obviously great but means that the effect on R rates and the like may not be as pronounced as we might expect, but I do not see why this would be a barrier to loosening restrictions if the individuals that are vaccinated do not actually suffer any symptoms (thus no strain on the NHS).

It would of course mean we would need to be vigilant on booster doses to ensure that individuals are not unknowingly exposed when they are not protected if we are accepting that those vaccinated can still transmit the virus, as I am then envisaging a situation where the virus is being transmitted unchecked but causing little issues given the level of vaccinated people?

[zahidf]

20 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Sunday Johnson: No need for school closures.

Monday Johnson:  I hope we can steadily move out of lockdown and school closures after the February half term and starting, cautiously, to move regions down the tiers.

Wednesday Johnson-led debate : 31 March as an end date for lockdown

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think it says lockdown until March. I think it gives the Government authority to act without consulting Parliament until March, putting us in the same situation we were in for most of last year (including the period in August where we weren’t in lockdown and the Government were subsidising out pub visits)

[duke88]

34 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

There is also doubt that the current lockdown we are in is enough to get the virus back down. So that adds to the vaccination pressures too. 

If people are sticking to the rules, I don't understand how so many people can continue catching it. I don't have any close contact with anyone outside my household. Only time any of us leave is for exercise or to go to the shops. If these rules aren't enough to limit the numbers then we might as well just give up, there's no containing it.

[jparx]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Olympics official says prioritise athletes for coronavirus jab so Tokyo Games can go ahead

Sky News understands conversations underway between government and British Olympic Association about securing athletes a Covid-19 vaccination; IOC member Dick Pound is confident the Olympics can still go ahead as long as athletes can be vaccinated beforehand

https://www.skysports.com/olympics/news/15234/12180389/olympics-official-says-prioritise-athletes-for-coronavirus-jab-so-tokyo-games-can-go-ahead

You lost me at “Dick Pound”

[mike46]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Olympics official says prioritise athletes for coronavirus jab so Tokyo Games can go ahead

Sky News understands conversations underway between government and British Olympic Association about securing athletes a Covid-19 vaccination; IOC member Dick Pound is confident the Olympics can still go ahead as long as athletes can be vaccinated beforehand

https://www.skysports.com/olympics/news/15234/12180389/olympics-official-says-prioritise-athletes-for-coronavirus-jab-so-tokyo-games-can-go-ahead

Haha as if his name is Dick Pound 😂

[xxialac]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think it says lockdown until March. I think it gives the Government authority to act without consulting Parliament until March, putting us in the same situation we were in for most of last year (including the period in August where we weren’t in lockdown and the Government were subsidising out pub visits)

Apologies, that's almost certainly a correct distinction.

Nonetheless given how grave the numbers are, given they chose 31 March and given how Gove has been briefing until after March, it was totally irresponsible for Johnson to talk of easing lockdown in mid-February. Why over-promise?

And on a scripted speech too (because as we've seen, he's gaffe prone when he talks freely).

Edited January 6, 2021 by xxialac

[JoeyT]

21 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

doesn't stop them catching it and spreading it to others? Don't they need to concentrate on the vulnerable to ease pressure on health services?

If teachers are off because of Covid they can’t teach?

Much is said about the NHS but teachers also play an important part.

My wife has been expected to go to school with minimal PPE to teach year 1’s who have little to no idea as to what social distancing is...