Football 16-17

[big__phil]

9 hours ago, TheGayTent said:

Maybe I'm old but Fonte's rumoured transfer fee seems high. 

How high we talking?

[DareToDibble]

I'm majorly confused by this rumoured move for Fonte. Southampton to West Ham is odd. I figured he wanted to move to a top club whilst he still had the chance. Moving to West Ham (granted they are a bigger club than the Saints I guess) isn't exactly a step up. I was expecting him to join one of the top 6 or move abroad.

Weird.

[DareToDibble]

49 minutes ago, big__phil said:

How high we talking?

I've seen around £12mil quoted. Good value for a player of his quality but maybe not when you realise he only has 18 months left on his contract.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, DareToDibble said:

I've seen around £12mil quoted. Good value for a player of his quality but maybe not when you realise he only has 18 months left on his contract.

and is 32 years old!

[The Nal]

18 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and is 32 years old!

33!

[mjsell]

I don't think 12m is too much. Same price as Ashley Williams in the summer - who is also 32 (and not a European Championship winner)

[big__phil]

5 minutes ago, mjsell said:

I don't think 12m is too much. Same price as Ashley Williams in the summer - who is also 32 (and not a European Championship winner)

...and Fonte is a far better player.

In this day and age that isn't loads of money, but like @DareToDibble I expected him to go to one of the bigger clubs. The thing is, if none of the big clubs want him then he's rather screwed himself over with the transfer request a few weeks back. No way he'll play for Southampton again, so it's a probably a case of the best of the rest.

Interesting to see who Southampton replace him with. Yoshida is a decent squad player, but no way he should be playing regularly.

[The Nal]

Can't see Van Basten lasting long in his new FIFA role with this sort of chat

[mjsell]

26 minutes ago, big__phil said:

...and Fonte is a far better player.

In this day and age that isn't loads of money, but like @DareToDibble I expected him to go to one of the bigger clubs. The thing is, if none of the big clubs want him then he's rather screwed himself over with the transfer request a few weeks back. No way he'll play for Southampton again, so it's a probably a case of the best of the rest.

Interesting to see who Southampton replace him with. Yoshida is a decent squad player, but no way he should be playing regularly.

Other than Liverpool how many of the top 6 could do with another centre back? Plus I imagine Southampton are sick to death of selling to liverpool, so would rather not.

I assumed he was to go abroad if I'm honest. But wasn't sure how he would be viewed outside of the PL.

[TheGayTent]

Fonte isn't good enough for a starting spot in a top 6 side 

[thetime]

Or rojo or Jones

[eFestivals]

who wants a laugh...?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/19/emmanuel-adebayor-togo-africa-cup-nations-2017-england-premier-league

[The Nal]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

who wants a laugh...?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/19/emmanuel-adebayor-togo-africa-cup-nations-2017-england-premier-league

Errrr.... heres a hint Ade

[big__phil]

16 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

who wants a laugh...?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/19/emmanuel-adebayor-togo-africa-cup-nations-2017-england-premier-league

From the interview:

Quote

 "I am the comedian of this team..."

He's a joke alright. What a w*nker.

[Hugh Jass]

West Brom are apparently on the verge of signing Jake Livermore for £13m and Ighalo for £17m.

Thirty million pounds doesn't buy you much in January, does it?

[Wooderson]

The centrebacks at the premierships leading clubs aren't fit to lace the boots of those from the 70's and 80's That position is a holy fucking show. All over the place.

[pink_triangle]

12 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

The centrebacks at the premierships leading clubs aren't fit to lace the boots of those from the 70's and 80's That position is a holy fucking show. All over the place.

Agreed, it's difficult to say who is the best centre back in the league at present.

My views on Fonte is that top6 clubs have players of similar or worse ability getting significant game time. However if I'm a top 6 club looking to upgrade, I think I would aim for better.

[mjsell]

8 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Agreed, it's difficult to say who is the best centre back in the league at present.

Alderweireld for me.

Heres a stat for him: He has never been out of the top 2 defences (in terms of goals conceded) in the league he is playing in for the last 7 seasons and is on course to make that 8.

[Hugh Jass]

16 minutes ago, mjsell said:

Alderweireld for me.

Seconded.

[Comfy Bean]

Unfortunately the TV companies have shunned it but Saturday sees the big Scottish Cup tie between LJS`s Queens Park ( Scotland`s oldest club ) and the mighty Ayr Utd.

Ayr have home advantage and the bookies go 4/6 for a home win, it`s 7/2 your cash if you fancy an upset. 

It`s unlikely that QP will score from the spot as Ayr`s keeper has only conceded twice from the last 16 pens he has faced.

LJS - I bet you one pint your boys take one hell of a beating.

Ayr to sneak it 1-0 

[Comfy Bean]

2 hours ago, Wooderson said:

The centrebacks at the premierships leading clubs aren't fit to lace the boots of those from the 70's and 80's That position is a holy fucking show. All over the place.

Why do you think that is ? ( I agree by the way ). Are they to busy shitting themselves cause managers seem to want their keepers to play like sweepers nowadays with all this passing it out from the back that so often goes wrong.

I`m also wondering if the view on a good old fashioned tackle now ( don`t do it ) has something to do with it plus the pace in the game now especially from front men who are often speed merchants ( as in fast runners ) 

The other week we all seemed to agree that the goalies were also better in the good old days.

What positions have improved over the last 20 years ? Full backs becoming wing backs ?

 

[kaosmark2]

46 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

What positions have improved over the last 20 years ? Full backs becoming wing backs ?

Forwards. Unlike 15+ years ago, players who poach goals regularly aren't considered top players. Even players who run onto a through ball at pace and can finish 1 vs 1 with the goalie aren't enough. The likes of Owen, fat Ronaldo, Torres, Fowler, Lineker wouldn't be in the same league as Ibrahimovich, Lewandowski, Suarez, let alone Ronaldo/Messi. Maybe Henry and Del Piero, but the overall standard is way higher.

10 years ago a player like Giroud, who gets ~20 goals/season and links up play would be considered one of the best in the league, but he gets questioned. Sturridge isn't first choice at Liverpool even when fit, Defoe is left at Sunderland. Benzema's bit part at Real. Aguero hasn't been hunted by the really huge clubs.

Generally, I'd say the standards of attacking football, and attacking positions and players have improved a lot over the last 20ish years, but when a generation of top defenders started aging and either becoming bit-part players or retiring, there wasn't a wave of younger players ready to step up, that already had a good level of experience in reading the game while having quality in their tackling and positioning.

I think a big factor in the decline of defenses is that the current generation have grown up used to having a defensive mid in front to make the really crunching tackles without being the last man. That trend only really started with the likes of Makelele and Viera, so for all the centre backs that played alongside them it was extra protection. The current generation expect it.

[Hugh Jass]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Forwards. Unlike 15+ years ago, players who poach goals regularly aren't considered top players. Even players who run onto a through ball at pace and can finish 1 vs 1 with the goalie aren't enough. The likes of Owen, fat Ronaldo, Torres, Fowler, Lineker wouldn't be in the same league as Ibrahimovich, Lewandowski, Suarez, let alone Ronaldo/Messi. Maybe Henry and Del Piero, but the overall standard is way higher.

Fat Ronaldo would. Were it not for his injuries that ruined him he'd be spoken of in the same terms as Messi and Ronaldo. Possibly the most complete forward ever.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Hugh Jass

[kaosmark2]

Got tickets for the Oxford-Newc cup game

[big__phil]

12 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

Fat Ronaldo would. Were it not for his injuries that ruined him he'd be spoken of in the same terms as Messi and Ronaldo. Possibly the most complete forward ever.

Totally.

Going back to comparing today's defenders with those from 40/50 years ago - I just don't think you can make that comparison. The game is fundamentally different now, in so many ways. Chalk and cheese. The defenders from previous eras were probably better at tackling, but many of those tackles would be fouls these days. Also centre backs of old didn't really need to 'play', because the backpass rule wasn't invented by that point. Modern centre backs are fitter, stronger, quicker, and probably taller than those from the past.