Kanye West

[The Nal]

If he plays his songs and you don't like them, I'm not sure that there's much more he can do about that.

 

He could put together a show as opposed to just playing the songs with no thought to how they stitch together, keep a flow of music going etc.

 

Anyway from what I saw, no, I don't like his music. No problem. I just went somewhere else! Its Glasto.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

so the people who did enjoy, did so only because they knew his material?

Erm, no, that 100% totally isn't what I said. What I meant was that if you're so determined to have your head in the sand with regards pop culture as to not even know songs as overplayed as Jesus Walks then it's more than likely you'll deem most of what is to be found on the Pyramid Stage beneath you, so why you'd expect to go along there expecting to find a headline set anything other than a trial is beyond me.

[Followill]

Just got round to watching it, think he smashed it.

It wasn't perfect (he lost the crowd on a few songs) and some bits weren't the most professional but it was far from the train wreck it could of been. I was transfixed watching it and he seemed up for it, all the hits too even if not in full which may have mean due to set time constraints.

[Michaels denim shorts]

It's fair to expect a headliner at the biggest festival in the world to entertain a crowd that aren't specifically there for him?

Festival headliners shouldn't be so niche in my opinion

[russycarps]

so the people who did enjoy, did so only because they knew his material?

you shouldn't need to know the songs to enjoy them. I saw some acts I'd never heard of before that were infinitely more enjoyable than Kanye was.

I knew literally one song, the first, and still enjoyed the gig.

Now what?

[The Nal]

I knew literally one song, the first, and still enjoyed the gig.

Now what?

 

Time to lay off the hard stuff at gigs?

[Gregcharlie]

I knew literally one song, the first, and still enjoyed the gig.

Now what?

You listen to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

[frostypaw]

So how do you explain the consistent popularity of these acts then?

How do you explain how shit like "titanium" sits at the top of the charts for so long?

I think you're slightly missing my point still - I'm not saying some of these acts don't sell well, but that's not the whole story when it comes to an act being good fun music that a lot of folk will dance to and enjoy as a headliner spot, nor does it translate to being good live.

I'm sorry you think I chat shit. Let's take your suggestion that "the majority of the people young and old who regularly buy music seem to like 'urban' music" so let's check that last.fm top artists in the UK

1 Muse 3,728

2 Florence + the Machine 3,488

3 Radiohead 3,168

4 Kanye West 3,045

5 Jamie xx 2,940

6 Blur 2,912

7 David Bowie 2,842

8 Arctic Monkeys 2,771

9 Foo Fighters 2,703

10 Ed Sheeran 2,697

11 Major Lazer 2,627

12 Everything Everything 2,561

13 Fleetwood Mac 2,545

14 Coldplay 2,521

15 Daft Punk 2,377

It's far from conclusive evidence, but unless I'm mistaken there's just a smatter of 'urban' music there. Just because a lot gets played on radio1 doesn't actually mean it's popular, just because a single sells well doesn't mean the artist is popular, and none of the above mean their live show is up to scratch to be a pyramid headliner.

If you have the time you can scroll all the way through amazon music's top 100 in the UK. There's more there, but it's still just a portion, not huge. There are fans, but the majority it is not.

You may disagree, but I think you'll find I can back my point up again and again - I'm not talking shit, you just don't like the conclusions. I'm also not saying you don't have any point at all, look he's right up there in last.fm's list, but singles sales is not enough. Comparing that set with all it's blanks and pauses and lack of interaction to the non-stop rollercoasters I've seen with an audience whooping and roaring and dancing around for joy all the way back to the tree... well there's little point.

[Spud001]

You listen to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy

I second this

Also I'd much rather have a couple of mins wait between a song than hear Dave Grohl drone on about Kurt Cobain again for another 5 mins before Times Like These. Would mind so much if Dave ended up on a crane after......

[TiZuff]

He looks utterly spellbinding on the coverage shown on the beeb. I've watched it a couple of times now and it looks as if he's putting his heart and soul into and the crowd look as if they're going mental!!

 

To be honest, my actual recollection of it on the night is sketchy. I remember the crowd booing like made when he disappeared for a bit, but then I do remember loads of highlights. Black Skinhead and Power were especially brilliant.

 

I missed Gold Digger and All Falls Down as I bimbled up to Rum Shack to watch Mouse Outfit.

 

It's good to see plenty people enjoyed it on here though.

 

how it looks on bbc is exactly how i remember it. except i think we went a bit more mad at new slaves, lost in the world and blood on the leaves. 

The nal: I agree, I think its fair to say maybe a headliner shouldnt be so niche. but then ppl moan when its mumford and sons  

Also agreed he should have acknowledged where he was. Think he let the music do the talking but for those who didnt know the music it probably just reinforced the opinion of him as a prick. though some ppl i knew where towards the back and said it was just full of people swearing at him and saying get kendel jenna or whatever her name is. As well as comments towards his wife. 

I would say though, These gaps are being overstated too. like one gap someone ran on, the other gap was for the cherry picker (was either meant to be that long or there was a mistake backstage as they started it early) and was worth the pay off. hold my liquour there was a mistake. to me its not a big deal ive seen him before and hes a perfectionist. has restarted tracks twice last time i saw him (spaceship and never let me down).

And the show was planned. the minimalist lighting and smoke screen was a creative decision as part of what he is doing. following on from the backdrop of yeezus / mbdtf. Maybe he should bring on the BAYES (bays? bayz??) to entertain o_O

 As for people walking out, if they dont like the music then nothing he can do. yeezus / mbdtf are both critically acclaimed albums. but talk to anyone of the "music experts" at glastonbury and he "has become rubbish now, he lost it with the last few albums".

 

sorry hes not mumfords or bastille but there you go (not dissing either i saw them both at 2013 GUILTY)  

Have you seen the crowd reaction for like the vast majority of his set?? its HUGE! 

[russycarps]

Portishead had gaps of silence between their songs, didn't acknowledge the crowd at all (until it was all over and Beth asked if it had been ok), and that was one of the greatest sets ever...

Edited July 1, 2015 by russycarps

[Spud001]

Have you seen the crowd reaction for like the vast majority of his set?? its HUGE!

That's what I'm hearing too, if there really was only a few people there then we were bloody loud!

Lost in the World alone would have made the set for me, was a bit indulgent for some but I love that song too much so longer the better

[CaledonianGonzo]

I can conceive of people not digging the show and finding the staging distancing or alienating for nonpartisan viewers. But that doesn't equate to it being a car crash calamity of a show or justify wheeling out the old reductionist "he can't even play any instruments, rap is just angry men shouting" shibboleths.

[Bradders]

It wasn't a shambles was it? It just wasn't. There were some problems, but only someone who wants to complain because they hate Kanye as a person would say that was a shambles.

 

I feel like I've seen almost every argument against used to explain why he was shit by now, even ones that contradict other ones. For example he's both too pop and too niche, apparently. Had about 15 UK top 10 hits and is the 4th most popular artist in the UK on last.fm, but is too niche?

[Celery]

it's bizarre really, the setlist was packed full of stuff for casual fans

Stronger

Power

Niggas in Paris

Black Skinhead

Clique

Mercy

Heartless

Fourfive Seconds

Jesus Walks

Diamonds

Bound 2

Touch The Sky

All of the Lights

Good Life

Gold Digger

All Falls Down

You are massively overestimating the musical knowledge of casual fans. 

[Andeeroo]

Just for reference, what would have been sufficient acknowledgement that he was at Glastonbury?

 

He called out Glastonbury a few times, I think he changed the lyrics to one of his tracks to mention Glastonbury?

 

The only box he didn't tick was to give some kind of insincere speech about how special a place it is and why should he, when in reality he's only seen the inside of a winnebago?

[ghostdancer1]

I know its mad! You'd swear he didn't do any of the below

 

 - Acknowledged that he was even at Glastonbury

 - Played the songs professionally

 - Had a complete "show" planned

 - Rehearsed sufficiently

 - Mumbled at his production team a lot e.g. "This isn't what we rehearsed backstage"

 - Had something, anything to entertain the crowd with between the very long gaps 

 - Designed a setlist that didn't nose dive after 30 minutes leading to a mass walk out

 

etc etc

 

P.S. I was almost completely sober at the gig.

- he did acknowledge he was at Glastonbury.

- he did play the songs professionally. please point out several instances of them not being played professionally.

- he had a complete show planned. you may not like it, but that's what he planned.

- rehearsed sufficiently - i'm not sure how you gauge this, pretty much everything was spot on except his band member making a mistake.

- he didn't mumble at his "production team" a lot. please provide 5 instances of this happening and I'll gladly concede that it did.

- most gaps are less than 20 seconds, if some of the crowd needed to be entertained during this time then maybe they should be on some ADHD medication.

- the second half of the setlist was the better half, and i'd hardly call it a mass walkout, it will still rammed when it finished. i'm sure a lot of people who went hoping to hate it and whinge about it left after a while, which is a good thing, although going in the first place is pretty pathetic really given the amount of other good acts on at the same time. some people just like to whinge and be miserable though...

[CaledonianGonzo]

I watched about the first half hour of Florence this afternoon before turning it off bored, but in that time I hadn't heard a single of the songs she'd played before. Comparatively speaking, the Kanye set was mostly very familiar.

[Winslow Leach]

You are massively overestimating the musical knowledge of casual fans.

Sorry, are the ones you highlighted the ones you are saying casual fans wouldn't know? Because frankly that is ludicrous, N****s in Paris was huge a few years back, there was a time when you literally couldn't go near a dance floor without hearing it.

[Dan R]

Even if thousands of people did leave, there were still tens of thousands of people who stayed and enjoyed it. And the amount of people who were just curious about kanye was more than most headliners.

[The Nal]

it will still rammed when it finished.

 

All those people must have come back then because it was emptying out faster than any headliner Id seen apart from Gorillaz. Very patchy from about halfway back.

 

some people just like to whinge and be miserable though...

 

Not me. Only act of the weekend I didn't enjoy. Loved nearly everything I saw all weekend. A great, great Glasto.

 

Apart from Kanye, who I was genuinely embarrassed for at the time with the amount of people leaving. Some people enjoyed it, but the reviews from people are generally "mixed".

 

One of the worst gigs Ive ever seen.

[Celery]

Sorry, are the ones you highlighted the ones you are saying casual fans wouldn't know? Because frankly that is ludicrous, N****s in Paris was huge a few years back, there was a time when you literally couldn't go near a dance floor without hearing it.

And the other 5 songs I mentioned?

Asked a few 'casual fans' what they knew and none knew Paris. Possibly because it's not even on a Kanye solo album. 

I love a lot of his stuff but that was a shambles of a performance. I enjoyed it but all the people who had it in for him are probably feeling very smug right now. He did nothing to prove them wrong. 

The sound was also the worst I have ever experienced at a gig. Sounds so much better on TV.

p.s. Also, the cherry picker was a total waste of time. He looks terrified of heights on the TV coverage. Appearing on top of the sound desk like he did at The Big Chill was a lot more effective and didn't waste half as much time. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by Celery

[CaledonianGonzo]

Divisive artist delivers divisive performance. Who saw that coming?

[Bradders]

And the other 5 songs I mentioned?

Asked a few 'casual fans' what they knew and none knew Paris. Possibly because it's not even on a Kanye solo album. 

I love a lot of his stuff but that was a shambles of a performance. I enjoyed it but all the people who had it in for him are probably feeling very smug right now. He did nothing to prove them wrong. 

The sound was also the worst I have ever experienced at a gig. Sounds so much better on TV

 

 

Are all your 'casual fans' fairly old? And did you actually go ask several people if they've heard Niggas in Paris just to try and win an internet argument that he didn't play enough hits? Cos I don't believe you.

 

Just watching it back on TV, the opening was incredible. That c**t Lee Nelson took a bit of the wind out of the sails just as he played his first non-huge-hit and although I'm still enjoying it (both now and at the time, the TV is basically reminding me what I thought at the time) it hasn't yet quite recovered to how good it had been until the moment he came on. Blood on the Leaves sounds so good that if you're not enjoying it you're just clearly not a fan of his last 2 albums. In which case you're unlikely to like much of his set.

[Mash011]

The 'if you thought the set was bad you just don't like his music' straw man still going strong I see.