Blur

[Alvoram]

11 minutes ago, Superscally said:

...because the golden circle is underpopulated and half of that is people who've gone "to be there", rather than for the band so it's dull as ditchwater and a massive buzz kill. The whole thing about standing is the sense of collective. Singing as one. You want to be at the front? Get there early. There's your stratification. Imagine Live Aid and Radio Gaga with a circle. SHITE. 

I'll take a circle for safety too, but make it busier...and before you say it...not too busy.

Still have to queue early to get near the front of the golden circle... Otherwise you end up no closer to the front than if you'd turned up just before the first support act at a gig without a golden circle. 

What really winds me up, golden circle or no golden circle, is the amount of people who queue for hours to get there early, only to bloody film the entire bloody show all night with their screen brightness up full... Golden circles, or a lack of, do not change that. You're probably better off away front the front in that sense!

[ericlered]

31 minutes ago, mungo57 said:

I'm fairly certain that if people were to wait until a week prior to the show there would be cheaper tickets on Twickets anyway in all tiers, people often can't go and have to sell the tickets quickly - I've benefitted from being able to sell quickly in the past (Gorillaz at APE this year for example during the strikes) - but I get this isn't the point.

 

I agree with Hugh Jass, the whole Golden Circle thing really grinds my gears. Thats the only reason I didn't go and see Roger Waters at Hyde Park a few years ago. Didn't fancy paying £70 or whatever it was to be standing behind the rich bastards that paid for GC. I might add that at the same series of gigs that summer the Cure played and they didn't have a Golden Circle, at least I don't remember there being one. It sold out and I didn't get a ticket but I am sure I don't remember there being a Golden Circle from when I tried to get them.

Promoters have us by the balls and they know it - in that moment of desperation when the regular standing sells out you're faced with 2 decisions, leave it and try for a seat up in the gods for the same price or pay more for GC if still available. They know 8/10 people will just pay more to make sure they get in. Not great but there's capitalism for you.

We saw The Cure at Hyde Park in 2018, there was a front circle, for safety reasons, but it was first come first served to general ticket holders fort the wristbands, which is what we did. If it had been an extra tiered price we wouldn't even have bought tickets. Think tickets were about £60.

Pearl Jam at Hyde Park this year, front circle tickets were for the fanclub members, think we bought a ticket that covered both days for £130. So £65 per gig in 2022.

Certainly won't be paying £150 for GC, or £100 to stand behind the GC for Blur.

 

[kingbadger]

1 hour ago, Superscally said:

Golden circles are the most Tory thing in the world.

The defence of it and the money grabbing from acts has been the most Tory thing I've seen on Efests I think. 

[scatteredscreens]

Just now, kingbadger said:

The defence of it and the money grabbing from acts has been the most Tory thing I've seen on Efests I think. 

Agreed.

[dondo]

1 hour ago, ericlered said:

We saw The Cure at Hyde Park in 2018, there was a front circle, for safety reasons, but it was first come first served to general ticket holders fort the wristbands, which is what we did. If it had been an extra tiered price we wouldn't even have bought tickets. Think tickets were about £60.

Pearl Jam at Hyde Park this year, front circle tickets were for the fanclub members, think we bought a ticket that covered both days for £130. So £65 per gig in 2022.

Certainly won't be paying £150 for GC, or £100 to stand behind the GC for Blur.

 

I was at that Cure gig. I didn't realise the front bit was 1st come 1st served.  Probably wouldn't have been there in time anyways though.

[stuie]

19 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

The defence of it and the money grabbing from acts has been the most Tory thing I've seen on Efests I think. 

I can't understand it personally. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by stuie

[FakeEmpire]

I've done a few 'first come, first served' golden circles - The Cure @ Hyde Park, Carole King @ Hyde Park, Springsteen @ Etihad - and it's definitely enjoyable to know you can pop out between acts to grab a beer, go to toilet, and have a good spot to come back to. It feels like a reward for turning up early to watch the first band on.

It always amazes me how empty they are though. It's great when you're in them - you have so much space around you but then everyone outside of the GC is absolutely crammed in. 

It sucks when you've paid a lot for standing and are crammed in outside an empty golden circle (which I've experienced lots of times!) 

[mungo57]

I remember way back when Muse played their first ever 2 nights at Wembley Stadium and I had tickets to both nights, first night we were behind the barrier and asked security and they said it was full, you just need a wristband and have to queue for them, next night we came down a bit earlier and got straight into the golden circle bit. Thats how it should be really. Charging extra for it is entirely bullshit.

 

I remember the first gig I went to with a paid GC was GnR at the Olympic Stadium in London in 2015/16 can't remember when, the GC was not THAT much more compared to Blur pricing but still fucking expensive. We elected to stand in the poor people zone and still had a bloody good time. Same as for Rammstein when I've seen them at 2 stadium shows. What fuckery it really is having GC's in a massive stadium like that. They're literally only doing it to extract every single ounce of shrapnel they can out of us, which is insulting.

I'd be interested to know if bands even get involved in things like how the crowd is charged, laid out in an arena/stadium - I'd have thought the band just set their price and their promoter dealt with the logistics like that. I'm sure if you'd ask the bands they'd rather everyone paid the same but obviously, that's not their decision. I may be wrong, but that was my assumption.

[clasher]

4 hours ago, Hugh Jass II said:

This makes no sense. At any venue, regardless of size, some seats will be closer to the stage and offer better views than others. At a massive venue like Wembley where some seats are further away it makes sense for them to be cheaper.**

Splitting the standing area into sections and charging more for the front is minimal effort for maximum gain. Charging fans an extra 45 quid to get a little closer than others is fucking deplorable.

**Although over 80 sheets for top tier is still ridiculous.

So paying less if you're way back makes sense, but paying more to be closer doesn't. And yes, 80 for the worst tickets is appalling. I find that much more of a problem than golden circle at a premium. Again, it's not as much a "get a little closer", as it saves you hours of queuing.

4 hours ago, Superscally said:

...because the golden circle is underpopulated and half of that is people who've gone "to be there", rather than for the band so it's dull as ditchwater and a massive buzz kill. The whole thing about standing is the sense of collective. Singing as one. You want to be at the front? Get there early. There's your stratification. Imagine Live Aid and Radio Gaga with a circle. SHITE. 

I'll take a circle for safety too, but make it busier...and before you say it...not too busy.

Yeah I agree, it certainly shouldn't be empty.

[Radiochicken]

Does anyone have a seating plan showing how big the golden circle is? That’ll be the clincher for me

[DeanoL]

21 hours ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Charging an extra £45 to stand about 20 feet closer is greed.

Pure and simple.

Not really. You make just as much money for your greed with no golden circle and pricing regular standing at £15 more. It's a way of selling that has pros and cons.

[Alvoram]

2 hours ago, mungo57 said:

I remember way back when Muse played their first ever 2 nights at Wembley Stadium and I had tickets to both nights, first night we were behind the barrier and asked security and they said it was full, you just need a wristband and have to queue for them, next night we came down a bit earlier and got straight into the golden circle bit. Thats how it should be really. Charging extra for it is entirely bullshit.

 

I remember the first gig I went to with a paid GC was GnR at the Olympic Stadium in London in 2015/16 can't remember when, the GC was not THAT much more compared to Blur pricing but still fucking expensive. We elected to stand in the poor people zone and still had a bloody good time. Same as for Rammstein when I've seen them at 2 stadium shows. What fuckery it really is having GC's in a massive stadium like that. They're literally only doing it to extract every single ounce of shrapnel they can out of us, which is insulting.

I'd be interested to know if bands even get involved in things like how the crowd is charged, laid out in an arena/stadium - I'd have thought the band just set their price and their promoter dealt with the logistics like that. I'm sure if you'd ask the bands they'd rather everyone paid the same but obviously, that's not their decision. I may be wrong, but that was my assumption.

Feuerzone is a must though!!! Face is still melting now!

On your actual point, I think you're right. For the most part it will be the promoters making decisions like that. Except where artists step in with very specific demands, as they can and often do. An artist simply has to say "all standing pay the same" and the promoter will make it happen. Of course, GA tickets will be a tenner more to make up for it, but hey, it's all swings and roundabouts huh...

[scatteredscreens]

9 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Not really. You make just as much money for your greed with no golden circle and pricing regular standing at £15 more. It's a way of selling that has pros and cons.

You're saying that as if a £15 increase is absolutely necessary, it isn't.

[DeanoL]

5 minutes ago, scatteredscreens said:

You're saying that as if a £15 increase is absolutely necessary, it isn't.

Oh absolutely not, there are ways to reduce costs: pay the band less, pay the crew less, hire cheaper equipment so it doesn't sound as good (FYI for gigs like these, bands have to provide the PA themselves, which for a one-off show, where you're not hiring it out for weeks, is expensive) - reduce the production, less pyro etc.

Loads of ways to make the tickets cheaper, including the band taking less money. The point is, shows like this aren't budgeted in the following way:

18 hours ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Not sure how big the golden circle is, but let’s say for the purpose of conversation it’s 5k. That’s an extra £235k for no extra effort.

That is greed.

They don't just go, yeah, we're happy with it at the moment, the band are making £700K, but actually they've asked for a Golden Circle so they can have £935K now. It's not like organising a show in a pub function room.

What happens is that you work out all of the costs, including venue, equipment, staff and what the band want to be paid. You then work out how many tickets you need to sell and at what price in order to make that money. A golden circle is just one way of tiering the tickets. You could choose not to tier at all, and have a flat price. This was the norm ten years ago. But you do that the low end tickets get more expensive. Either way, at the point you're figuring out what the ticket prices are going to be and how they'll be tiered, you'll be working to a set figure that you need to hit based on X% of tickets sold (for this show, X is probably 100).

Is this show expensive? God yes. Blur will be making a fortune off it. But it'd still be expensive without the golden circle.

[Hugh Jass II]

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Oh absolutely not, there are ways to reduce costs: pay the band less, pay the crew less, hire cheaper equipment so it doesn't sound as good (FYI for gigs like these, bands have to provide the PA themselves, which for a one-off show, where you're not hiring it out for weeks, is expensive) - reduce the production, less pyro etc.

Loads of ways to make the tickets cheaper, including the band taking less money. The point is, shows like this aren't budgeted in the following way:

They don't just go, yeah, we're happy with it at the moment, the band are making £700K, but actually they've asked for a Golden Circle so they can have £935K now. It's not like organising a show in a pub function room.

What happens is that you work out all of the costs, including venue, equipment, staff and what the band want to be paid. You then work out how many tickets you need to sell and at what price in order to make that money. A golden circle is just one way of tiering the tickets. You could choose not to tier at all, and have a flat price. This was the norm ten years ago. But you do that the low end tickets get more expensive. Either way, at the point you're figuring out what the ticket prices are going to be and how they'll be tiered, you'll be working to a set figure that you need to hit based on X% of tickets sold (for this show, X is probably 100).

Is this show expensive? God yes. Blur will be making a fortune off it. But it'd still be expensive without the golden circle.

Always enjoy it when someone comes on to a festival/gigs site to explain how pricing works.

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Always enjoy it when someone comes on to a festival/gigs site to explain how pricing works.

Maybe listen once in a while and you wouldn't get it so utterly wrong then.

[DeanoL]

Would people be happy if the golden circle was £2000 and then all the other tickets were £50? And they were doing it to make the other tickets affordable?

If so, your problem isn't with the golden circle, it's with the price in general.

[clasher]

4 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

Always enjoy it when someone comes on to a festival/gigs site to explain how pricing works.

Yeah you'd think people would get it by now.

[Hugh Jass II]

Just now, DeanoL said:

Would people be happy if the golden circle was £2000 and then all the other tickets were £50? And they were doing it to make the other tickets affordable?

If so, your problem isn't with the golden circle, it's with the price in general.

Problems are twofold.

First the fact that it exists, secondly the fact that people try to defend it.

Live music is not supposed to be an elite experience, it is meant to be communal. I can understand the price disparity between seats as some naturally have better views than others. I wouldn’t expect to pay the same to sit at the back as at the front.

The standing section however should be equal, first come first served, splitting a section off and making it available only those able to afford more is morally repugnant.

The production costs for three blokes with guitars and a guy behind the drum kit will not justify £100 a ticket. I am a procurement manager when I’m not posting on here and one of the things I see constantly these days is suppliers trying to push through unrealistic price hikes because they think they currently have the opportunity to.

Defending it on the grounds of “oh thats just how much it is these days” just means people will continue to accept being ripped off.

[scatteredscreens]

32 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Loads of ways to make the tickets cheaper, including the band taking less money. The point is, shows like this aren't budgeted in the following way.

Funny how this is never the first option, which is what I would be expecting. Like @Hugh Jass IIsaid gigs are a communal experience and I think it's a shitty prospect to have the front standing of a gig filled with people with deep pockets, I'd sooner it go to a rabid blur fan, it'd make for better atmosphere.

I think it's a rip off, some of you are defending it, happy to agree to disagree.

[DeanoL]

19 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

The standing section however should be equal, first come first served, splitting a section off and making it available only those able to afford more is morally repugnant.

"Equal" and "first come, first served" are not the same. You'd accomplish the former by some sort of lottery. The latter favours those physically and socially able to queue for longer. That can get half a day off work, that can stand up for that long, that are young/fit/relatively healthy.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that as a mechanism for choosing who gets to the front. But it's not "fairer" than doing it by price. Why is morally repugnant to stop poor people from getting to the front but absolutely fine to stop those with bad backs? Why is it fine to discriminate against one group but repugnant to discriminate against the other?

And to be clear, I'm not saying "we should always have a golden circle to help that group and fuck the poor". I'm saying neither is a perfect system but they're both very biased in different ways. And while as someone with a few minor health issues but a well-paid job, I might have a preference, I'm not going to act like the other way of doing it is some sort of moral failing on the part of the promoter.

Edited November 15, 2022 by DeanoL

[DeanoL]

Just now, scatteredscreens said:

Funny how this is never the first option, which is what I would be expecting. Like @Hugh Jass IIsaid gigs are a communal experience and I think it's a shitty prospect to have the front standing of a gig filled with people with deep pockets, I'd sooner it go to a rabid blur fan, it'd make for better atmosphere.

I think it's a rip off, some of you are defending it, happy to agree to disagree.

I think the gig is a rip off. But the band could decide to take no money at all, and make every ticket half the price it is now, but with the same structure, and presumably we'd be having the same conversations. And honestly I'd rather there be cheaper seats at the low end so people weren't priced out entirely, and that balanced with more expensive tickets for the high end.

This gig is a rip off because even the shit seats are £80. But generally I'd rather a gig be tiered at £100/£70/£40 than £70 for everyone. Whereas people here would rather price out people at the lower end to avoid having tiering at all, and think that's somehow morally "right".

[scatteredscreens]

3 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

"Equal" and "first come, first served" are not the same. You'd accomplish the former by some sort of lottery. The latter favours those physically and socially able to queue for longer. That can get half a day off work, that can stand up for that long, that are young/fit/relatively healthy.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with that as a mechanism for choosing who gets to the front. But it's not "fairer" than doing it by price. Why is morally repugnant to stop poor people from getting to the front but absolutely fine to stop those with bad backs? Why is it fine to discriminate against one group but repugnant to discriminate against another.

And to be clear, I'm not say "we should always have a golden circle to help that group and fuck the poor". I'm saying neither is a perfect system but they're both very biased in different ways. And while as someone with a few minor health issues but a well-paid job, I might have a preference, I'm not going to act like the other way of doing it is some sort of moral failing on the part of the promoter.

Bit shit then if you have a bad back AND can't afford golden circle then. Might as well not go?

[scatteredscreens]

Just now, DeanoL said:

I think the gig is a rip off. But the band could decide to take no money at all, and make every ticket half the price it is now, but with the same structure, and presumably we'd be having the same conversations. And honestly I'd rather there be cheaper seats at the low end so people weren't priced out entirely, and that balanced with more expensive tickets for the high end.

This gig is a rip off because even the shit seats are £80. But generally I'd rather a gig be tiered at £100/£70/£40 than £70 for everyone. Whereas people here would rather price out people at the lower end to avoid having tiering at all, and think that's somehow morally "right".

I think people just get a bit frustrated about tiering up standing. I don't think anyone has a problem with cheap seats. I buy them for some artists as they're arguably a good deal at times.

[NoBuses]

The pricing and the golden circle is shit, but i'm not giving up the opportunity to see The Universal live so.