news & politics:discussion

[SwedgeAntilles]

So now we're using vote % as a means to disenfranchise the vote? 😂. What percentage of the UK backed the tories prior to the brexit ref btw? 

Scotland just elected a government with a clear mandate for a second referendum. If you want us to stay in the UK make that argument, but don't waste your time arguing whether there is a mandate or not, there is. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

8 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

So now we're using vote % as a means to disenfranchise the vote? 😂. What percentage of the UK backed the tories prior to the brexit ref btw? 

Scotland just elected a government with a clear mandate for a second referendum. If you want us to stay in the UK make that argument, but don't waste your time arguing whether there is a mandate or not, there is. 

It’s not within Holyrood’s power to call an independence referendum.

 

The only valid mandate for such referendum would be a (UK wide) government elected in a general election on a pledge to hold one. I can’t see Labour or the Conservatives adding this to their manifesto any time soon so the most likely scenario would be the SNP leveraging one in a hung Parliament. 

[Ozanne]

@Zoo Music Girl

This is encouraging!

[mattiloy]

17 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It has been done badly I agree. There’s talk that LOTO are rowing back now after seeing the anger after the Raynor news last night. So Nandy might stay or get another top role and they might not be sacking working class women, hopefully that’s the case.

I think a reshuffle might not be a bad idea depending on who he brings in.

Starmer is not in the habit of giving us nice surprises. Worst case scenario incoming - Rayner and Nandy demoted and Wes Streeting and Reeves top jobs. Nailed on.

It is comedy gold that Starmer’s answer to ’how do we win back the red wall?’ is ’MORE STREETING!’

In fact its fascinating, like when you watch mindhunter and they interview these cannibals and so on. Just fascinated how somebody can be so fucked up in the head.

[Zoo Music Girl]

12 hours ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...maybe.

It's very easy to say such and such person should be leader...but labour is so divided and ideological that they normally end up upsetting a good chunk of the party. 

It's like Burnham. I remember when he was just another Blairite then Brownite labour politician in a smart suit...and now he's some sort of king of the north who's going to save the labour movement.

Yeah I like Burnham too, but I agree that it's weird how he has avoided the centrist scum label despite being part of the Blair and Brown cabinets (not a label I would use anyway, but I mean by those who use it for anyone to the right of Corbyn usually).

Relieved about Khan! 

[Mr.Tease]

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

18 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

@Zoo Music Girl

This is encouraging!

Definitely! Good old London.

[Matt42]

17 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

@Zoo Music Girl

This is encouraging!

Sorta. But I do think there’s a bit of a problem in this. The major cities are getting progressively more labour while the rest of the country becomes more Tory.

[mattiloy]

14 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah I like Burnham too, but I agree that it's weird how he has avoided the centrist scum label despite being part of the Blair and Brown cabinets (not a label I would use anyway, but I mean by those who use it for anyone to the right of Corbyn usually).

Relieved about Khan! 

He was a bit associated with that in 2015 tbf. But he was always on the soft left really, never a member of the hard right groupings like progress or Labour first. Since then, he was one of the few who didn’t join the coup in 2016 and stayed in the shadow cabinet until he ran for Metro mayor. Then as Metro mayor, in words and policy, of course easier with the freedom he has, But still, he’s appeared to be more to the left. But he still ticks the ’looks right in a suit’ criteria of the hard right of the party.

A compromise palettable to all sides.

Edited May 9, 2021 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

47 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Lol I come back on here and people are suggesting DAVID LAMMY?

Whilst he’s a nice guy he is seen as one of the top ‘wokies’ of the Labour Party. Very London centric and you know his whole political view has been formed independent of the regions.

bloody hell there are also cringe compilations online with stuff he’s said.

Personally I think Andy Burnham would make a good figure head for Labour, but I don’t see it happening. James O Brien said the other day what they need is a charismatic figurehead and a strong team behind them. He suggested someone like Dec from and and dec.

They need someone who will be successful on the door step. David Lammy would tank anywhere outside of major cities. If you’re argument is “well if you read his book you may like him” it’s already too much for the gb public to like him. They need three words akin to “get Brexit done”

I don't know...I like Burnham...but he has an easy job really...Manchester is a labour city, it voted remain, it is cosmopolitan, liberal, diverse etc etc. It is like a poorer, smaller London. It has wealth, and it has poverty...but it votes labour everywhere except some parts of trafford who are a tory wannabe cheshire set. So, yes he's white working class man who talks normal and genuinely likes football etc etc...but he has a very easy job compared to being labour leader.

I think they will want a woman as next leader.

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Just now, mattiloy said:

He was a bit associated with that in 2015 tbf. But he was always on the soft left really, never a member of the hard right groupings like progress or Labour first. Since then, he was one of the few who didn’t join the coup in 2016 and stayed in the shadow cabinet until he ran for Metro mayor. Since then, in words and policy, of course easier with the freedom he has, But still, he’s appeared to be more to the left. But he still ticks the ’looks right in a suit’ criteria of the hard right of the party.

A compromise palettable to all sides.

Wow I didn't think there was one that was palatable to all sides! Get him in quick then.

[steviewevie]

37 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

So now we're using vote % as a means to disenfranchise the vote? 😂. What percentage of the UK backed the tories prior to the brexit ref btw? 

Scotland just elected a government with a clear mandate for a second referendum. If you want us to stay in the UK make that argument, but don't waste your time arguing whether there is a mandate or not, there is. 

true...but it's a big risk for Sturgeon to hold that referendum too...I actually think Johnson should let them have it, I think it will be a no vote again.

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know...I like Burnham...but he has an easy job really...Manchester is a labour city, it voted remain, it is cosmopolitan, liberal, diverse etc etc. It is like a poorer, smaller London. It has wealth, and it has poverty...but it votes labour everywhere except some parts of trafford who are a tory wannabe cheshire set. So, yes he's white working class man who talks normal and genuinely likes football etc etc...but he has a very easy job compared to being labour leader.

I think they will want a woman as next leader.

 

It's about bloody time they did really, innit.

[Matt42]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know...I like Burnham...but he has an easy job really...Manchester is a labour city, it voted remain, it is cosmopolitan, liberal, diverse etc etc. It is like a poorer, smaller London. It has wealth, and it has poverty...but it votes labour everywhere except some parts of trafford who are a tory wannabe cheshire set. So, yes he's white working class man who talks normal and genuinely likes football etc etc...but he has a very easy job compared to being labour leader.

I think they will want a woman as next leader.

 

How does he fare with the non-metropolitan northern crowd? Maybe they don’t know him because they don’t really associate with them - but I think the next labour leader needs to be someone that not just the youngsters in the metropolitan areas like but their parents like too. I feel like Andy would at least visit the deprived counties outside of Manchester, Leeds etc.

I can’t see Andy churning out disconnected identity politics either which may put the more socially conservative lot off him.

A woman would be great. I don’t know who it would be though. I wanted Lisa Nandy to be labour leader after Corbyn but I think she killed her chances when she started openly admitting anti-royalty rhetoric. It wasn’t what the country wanted to hear at the time and probably killed her chances.

[mattiloy]

2 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Wow I didn't think there was one that was palatable to all sides! Get him in quick then.

Batley and Spen byelection soon..

But unlikely he’d go so soon after winning Metro mayor. He’ll want to make good on his commitments to the people of Gtr Manchester.

And I’d be amazed of Starmer allowed him to stand, being the biggest threat to his authority.

But next GE maybe

[LJS]

22 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

You live in Stockholm don't you ?   Wtf do you care? 

Pisses me off people saying "us" that don't even live in the country lol    happened with brexit with loads of twats in Spain voting out.  I know some twat who voted out and then moved to France lol

Morning Barry.

I live in Scotland & I agree with him.

I also believe people are entitled to opinions wherever they live. I mean I don't mind you having opinions about Scotland 🙂

 

[Matt42]

I’m English. Love the Scottish. But I don’t have an opinion on Scottish independence. It’s not my choice to make, it’s theirs. 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

How does he fare with the non-metropolitan northern crowd? Maybe they don’t know him because they don’t really associate with them - but I think the next labour leader needs to be someone that not just the youngsters in the metropolitan areas like but their parents like too. I feel like Andy would at least visit the deprived counties outside of Manchester, Leeds etc.

I can’t see Andy churning out disconnected identity politics either which may put the more socially conservative lot off him.

A woman would be great. I don’t know who it would be though. I wanted Lisa Nandy to be labour leader after Corbyn but I think she killed her chances when she started openly admitting anti-royalty rhetoric. It wasn’t what the country wanted to hear at the time and probably killed her chances.

I don't know...I think labour should forget the socially conservative vote. Fuck'em.

[steviewevie]

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know...I think labour should forget the socially conservative vote. Fuck'em.

Not when they seem to be the largest voting majority.

[Mr.Tease]

 

[Mimo]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

PeBritish society has many failures on race issues and Lammy rightfully calls them out. people prefer to not have their failures highlighted, it's not the way someone wins the support that a politician is trying to win.

I was attempting to separate that side of things which might cause him to be rejected at the ballot box from rejection of him due to just skincolour. My apologies for any offence in the the wording used in trying to say that I wasn't trying to say theres an acceptable type of black person only the broader idea that some approaches to a issue make a better connection than other approaches.

No worries, didn’t mean to go for you so hard it was late and I was grumpy!

Lammy for PM though. My campaign starts here.

Labour don’t have a perfect candidate, but what they need most I think is someone who can appeal to people emotionally. TBF i think Burnham would be good too.

Tories have gone populist and people have bought into it hard. It’s all very well Labour presenting themselves as the safe pair of hands ready to step in after the populism inevitably blows up in our faces, but that means waiting for things to get really bad first which just isn’t good enough. They need to present a positive progressive inclusive vision of our country and shout it from the rooftops.

[Zoo Music Girl]

11 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Batley and Spen byelection soon..

But unlikely he’d go so soon after winning Metro mayor. He’ll want to make good on his commitments to the people of Gtr Manchester.

And I’d be amazed of Starmer allowed him to stand, being the biggest threat to his authority.

But next GE maybe

I don't see it for the next one either, but maybe 2028? Fuck I'll be ancient by then.

Is there a limit on how many times you can stand for mayor?

[Zoo Music Girl]

11 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I have heard if a right scum label but not a centrist one?

If Labour now hate the centre then they are in real trouble and the broad church claim is a joke.

I've voted Labour at every general election and it gets harder every year.  Next election I doubt I will.  Just not a party that interests me with all its wokeyness and hating on reasonable view points.

It's all about the economy, jobs, schools, crime, security and a fair opportunity for all...

Labour offer nothing on most those fronts.  Its all benefits, statues and transgender rights.  People mostly don't think or about that stuff on a daily basis.  Major disconnect

If you've never heard people slagging off centrists, you haven't spent much time in this thread!

[Matt42]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

 

I’m impressed with Owen here. He usually has some pretty off takes when it comes to Labour leadership... I.e he claims often that Labour needs to be MORE socialist.

But he’s right here - Labour can’t afford to have a leader where people are expected to hold their nose and vote for them. When that is the case people vote Tory.