news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

It's an interesting statistic, but you have to bear in mind that Britain in 1952 was still recovering from the second world war and money was tight, some foods were still being rationed so there wasn't the money for most people to afford a house, hence less demand and lower prices, also a house in those days was pretty bare, no central heating, double glazing or appliances included so you were getting less for your money, this is the problem with statistics, you have to go a bit deeper to get a true picture. (not saying housing isn't overpriced, it is, but probably not by this margin).

in 10952 we were shipping our cash to the usa to pay war bills, and the yanks, had just stolen our historic systemic advantage via the bretton woods agreement.

[gizmoman]

7 hours ago, lost said:

Its like another of our institutions the BBC. Some people think the idea of being forced to pay £159 a year for state owned tv channels ridiculous in 2022 whilst others will defend it as an essential part of our culture.

If you are still paying the license fee this is how the BBC spend it, paying someone to plot the family tree of the Queen's corgis,

 

If Monty Python were still active they would struggle to come up with anything as absurd as this, it really does defy credulity.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Things seem to be going the Ukrainians way against the Russians.

[steviewevie]

it's like that bit between christmas and new year.

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Things seem to be going the Ukrainians way against the Russians.

yes, maybe Ukraine should invade Russia and liberate its people from the drugged up nazis running the country.

[philipsteak]

Well don't I feel silly. Was sure there was "a real Paddington" there.

(also, think they might have run out of things to talk about at this stage. Good luck keeping this going)

[steviewevie]

neck and neck in Sweden...with the right just in front..

 

[mattiloy]

21 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

neck and neck in Sweden...with the right just in front..

 

Goes to postal and foreign votes on wednesday which switched it for the left last time. But harrowing stuff that SD, sweden’s ukip but who have their roots in a party formed by actual SS members, could be in government.

The horse trading will be very difficult for the right too. They have both liberals and fascists to please on social policy and on economic policy SD are often against a reduction in welfare.

Whats sure is that the anti immigrant vote came out in force and will be heard one way or the other.

I really hate How immigration and this ’woke’ bollocks have become a bear trap for the left everywhere. Its such a distraction. As in the UK if the hard right get in, they will have been voted in solely because of immigration and ’woke’ shit. But their real agenda is just punitive, mean spirited economic policy with a side order of massive corruption. Environmental policy, privatisation in schools, health and social care is a particular concern.

Happily Stockholm region and kommun have seen a massive increase in left and so for the first time since I lived here We will have a left steered local government which matters a great deal as many things,m - health, education and more - are run at a local level.

[mattiloy]

The exit polls had a win for the left. It was like reliving the trauma of 2015 as the votes came in. ’Shy SDers’ undercounted. 😢

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

neck and neck in Sweden...with the right just in front..

 

Another thing - a new party ’Nyans’ who are compromised of immigrants and party funded by islamists, have taken tens of thousands of votes off the left in certain areas.

The great irony is that in doing so they may have ushered in a real worst case scenario government for those they represent.

[Zoo Music Girl]

6music seems kind of back to normal?

BBC news site still farcical though. I think it's about 30 queen stories before you get to "other news". WTF is there to say?

[Kurosagi]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

I really hate How immigration and this ’woke’ bollocks have become a bear trap for the left everywhere. Its such a distraction. As in the UK if the hard right get in, they will have been voted in solely because of immigration and ’woke’ shit. But their real agenda is just punitive, mean spirited economic policy with a side order of massive corruption. Environmental policy, privatisation in schools, health and social care is a particular concern.

Yes, the right are historically good with identifying the exact kind of wedge issue to make sure they keep (or get in) power. Sad to see that it continues to be as effective elsewhere in the world as it is in the UK. The left continue to be amazingly good at digging themselves into holes of their own making (can't define a woman, won't support industrial action etc.).

I have a friend who is an industrial relations academic and he sent me this (only slightly tongue in cheek) update this morning.

On politics, we need a general election and or a government of national unity (excluding the Tories of course who have nothing to do with unity). Likely scenario- after 6-12 months Truss is a disaster; Tories looking down the barrel on a big election defeat; they panic and bring back Johnson. Can't see it going any other way.

[mattiloy]

26 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

Yes, the right are historically good with identifying the exact kind of wedge issue to make sure they keep (or get in) power. Sad to see that it continues to be as effective elsewhere in the world as it is in the UK. The left continue to be amazingly good at digging themselves into holes of their own making (can't define a woman, won't support industrial action etc.).

I have a friend who is an industrial relations academic and he sent me this (only slightly tongue in cheek) update this morning.

On politics, we need a general election and or a government of national unity (excluding the Tories of course who have nothing to do with unity). Likely scenario- after 6-12 months Truss is a disaster; Tories looking down the barrel on a big election defeat; they panic and bring back Johnson. Can't see it going any other way.

Yes agreed. The only consolation from letting the hard right have the run of things is that their nonsense appears to have a relatively short sell by date once in government. Sweden’s institutions are also more prohibitive on what they can get away with, as even as second largest party, they need the agreement of the remaining 30% of the right bloc to be able to pass their reforms. Plus power is much more decentralised to regions and municipalities which are now largely left, certainly in the major population centres.

In the era of economic turmoil and bad geopolitical juju, it feels likely that they will struggle to get a handle on either the economy or immigration, and will probably end up coming unstuck, infighting will do the rest, just as in the UK.

So patience is really the only order of the day Swedish left 🤝 British left

Edited September 12, 2022 by mattiloy

[Kurosagi]

So Sweden's situation is almost what it would be in the UK if we had PR? Lots of horsetrading which keeps in check the worst ideological excesses (and gives hope to steviewevie's centrist dreams).

When there are only two monolithic parties, and only one of those ever governs, there has to come a time when you ditch your historical conventions (and the HoL and the monarchy while you're at it) and embrace a more representative form of governance.

We can dream.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Kurosagi said:

in the UK if we had PR?

it would depend on the type of PR  and the overall structure, i don't think that generalised and undefined comments like your help get us nearer to PR, as people are free to think the worst within the undefined. and no one is defining what a new stucture for the uk should be.

[fred quimby]

3 hours ago, philipsteak said:

Well don't I feel silly. Was sure there was "a real Paddington" there.

(also, think they might have run out of things to talk about at this stage. Good luck keeping this going)

The real question here is where the fuck was the real Paddington. 

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

The real question here is where the fuck was the real Paddington. 

in darkest Peru.

[fred quimby]

12 minutes ago, Neil said:

in darkest Peru.

😁

[squirrelarmy]

22 minutes ago, Neil said:

in darkest Peru.

Hiding from Patel so she doesn’t send him to Rwanda. 

[Neil]

everytime on the news they talk about 'the late queen', i think 'why couldn't we have one that got there on time.' 😛 

[mattiloy]

1 hour ago, Kurosagi said:

So Sweden's situation is almost what it would be in the UK if we had PR? Lots of horsetrading which keeps in check the worst ideological excesses (and gives hope to steviewevie's centrist dreams).

When there are only two monolithic parties, and only one of those ever governs, there has to come a time when you ditch your historical conventions (and the HoL and the monarchy while you're at it) and embrace a more representative form of governance.

We can dream.

Yes basically, there is no upper chamber in Sweden.

The centrists basically act as kingmakers, the most powerful party in the riksdag as things stand are the smallest- the liberals.

Because they won’t work with the far right, as it stands it looks like it’d be a Christian dem/conservative government with confidence and supply from the far right and the liberals. Obviously that confidence and supply will be stretched to its limit and its very hard to believe that they would able to govern for four years, and certainly it means that any ambitions for a reformist right wing govt are checked at the door.

But it is possible that between now and the time of the next election they would manage to squeeze through some milder reforms to erode economic equality such as introducing market hire.

One reform I do hope goes through is gårdsförsäljning of alcohol (allowing small independent producers of alcohol to obtain a license to sell their own products on site -currently the state has a monopoly off license and it is illegal for producers to sell except through that).

Edited September 12, 2022 by mattiloy

[mattiloy]

The left bloc works better together because they are more closely aligned on certain issues. However the centre party (which is the other centrist party not the liberals) are rooted in agrarian/rural politics, so they clash to a certain degree with the greens and the left party.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, mattiloy said:

The left bloc works better together because they are more closely aligned on certain issues. However the centre party (which is the other centrist party not the liberals) are rooted in agrarian/rural politics, so they clash to a certain degree with the greens and the left party.

you disparagingly call them' centrists', what they really are are 'non-extremists'.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

The left bloc works better together because they are more closely aligned on certain issues. However the centre party (which is the other centrist party not the liberals) are rooted in agrarian/rural politics, so they clash to a certain degree with the greens and the left party.

sounds messy, much better to have fptp.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Neil said:

you disparagingly call them' centrists', what they really are are 'non-extremists'.

or they're called centrists because they're the centre party?