news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

I don’t know if it is. Judging by the cheers about masks no longer being needed, he may have bought himself some time.

I mean it clearly is over for him, whether he’s brought himself time now or not, he’s done. 

[Homer]

Surely Davis wouldn't have done that without consulting some of the main players first? Must be more big-hitters planning to follow his lead.

[Guest]

Just now, Homer said:

Surely Davis wouldn't have done that without consulting some of the main players first? Must be more big-hitters planning to follow his lead.

You’d have thought so, I doubt the Covid update today will make many change their minds considering everything else that has gone on.

That Davis question was really damaging. 

[steviewevie]

 

[mattiloy]

Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

Edited January 19, 2022 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

middle ground...centrism...you love it.

[Homer]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

I'm guessing it was more driven by self-preservation than ideology.

[Simsy]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

I'd say he has no ideology, he just knows he'd be out of a seat at the next election if he stays Tory.

[steviewevie]

I mean...both labour and tory parties are broad coalitions, so you're going to get some crossover..as much as it might piss off those on the left of labour.

[Guest]

 

[steviewevie]

Maybe it was part of Starmer's plan to keep Boris there.

 

[steviewevie]

 

[Lycra]

Is Davis's intervention Boris Johnson's Geoffrey Howe moment?

[steviewevie]

I guess he's not doing the sorry thing anymore.

 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I guess he's not doing the sorry thing anymore.

 

that bit really wound me up 

[Ryan1984]

22 minutes ago, Simsy said:

I'd say he has no ideology, he just knows he'd be out of a seat at the next election if he stays Tory.

Or is it just pantomime/for show?

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

To be fair the SNP have held the same tone throughout - its a bit the boy crying wolf with them...  Its why its important for Starmer not to do it every week...

whilst I agree , it shows his contempt for parliament at the same time ....  like its all some kind of joke or game the kind of response you'd expect from a child trying to annoy his parents when being told off .... 

[jimmillen]

37 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Ideologically, how does one defect from tory to Labour?

Sure its fine for certain voters who maybe aren’t as driven by any constant set of beliefs but to become a tory MP presumably you have some underlying belief in individualism, the free market etc

So either he’s had some sort of damascene epiphany, or Labour is now a safe haven for those who are ideologically opposed to left wing politics.

That very question puts an importance on ideology that not everyone - voters or MPs - shares.

Some MPs genuinely get into politics because they want to do their best as a representative for their constituency, and they'll join whichever party allows them to do so - even if they have to vote for a bunch of things they don't entirely agree with.

Looked at through a more cynical lens: some MPs genuinely get into politics because of ambition and a burning desire for power, and they'll join whichever party facilitates this - even if they have to vote for a bunch of things they don't entirely agree with.

And for voters, yes beliefs matter, but so does character and action on local issues. If an MP is seen to be "doing a good job" with things that voters in the constituency care about, then they can still win elections even when their ideology is shockingly out of step with the electorate.

Basically, people are complicated and ideology isn't everything.

[maelzoid]

The rightmost of the Labour party and the leftmost of the Tories are not as far apart as some people would like to believe.

[steviewevie]

 

[maelzoid]

9 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Its probably where you find the best of politics to be honest...

Agreed. As boring as it can be, a centrist, moderate approach is usually the one that upsets the least people and has the best chance of succeeding.

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said:

that bit really wound me up 

Same, so disrespectful!

David Davis moment felt pretty big.

[mattiloy]

55 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Its probably where you find the best of politics to be honest...

 

44 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

Agreed. As boring as it can be, a centrist, moderate approach is usually the one that upsets the least people and has the best chance of succeeding.

After decades of centrist politics, with the UK lurching from crisis to crisis for much of that time and with the nearly static growth in real disposable income since 1997 and household debt increasing enormously, then you both conclude that more centrism is needed..

If people are worse off and the political system has deteriorated to such an extent, call me crazy but I’d start to wonder if maybe something needed to change.

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by mattiloy

[Neil]

i'm determined to go, but the wife say that i cant go, as i won't manage it, i reckon i can do it, abd i'm not ready to give up just yet.