When will this shit end?

[Ommadawn]

29 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

That’s Michael and Emily out ... along with the legend , and McCartney 

..and me

 

[jparx]

 

3 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

In which case a number of other countries are guilty - not just the UK.

The Government haven't handled things perfectly by  any means but I shudder to think where we'd be if Labour had won the General Election. 

Probably in the same position, since they wouldn't have had enough time to repair 10 years of damage to the NHS. 

[stuartbert two hats]

12 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

In which case a number of other countries are guilty - not just the UK.

The Government haven't handled things perfectly by  any means but I shudder to think where we'd be if Labour had won the General Election. 

But many were not. Sweden and the US aside, I can't think of another country with a sloppier approach to the lockdown.

[Crazyfool01]

10 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

..and me

 

I think it would rule a massive number of us out ... and I’m not sure the festival could sell out if that were the case ... so that would create another problem ... polls on here have suggested that the forum is predominantly over 30s if I remember rightly 

[Madyaker]

11 hours ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I’m pretty sure it was all over the news that the Pubs in Dublin had to be closed by the government, as the public didn’t listen initially and they were full to the rafters. No different to what happened in the U.K. albeit a few days earlier in terms of being official.

Not exactly. The government here announced school closures and social distancing measures first before lockdown and at that point must pubs, restaurants and cafes realised it was impossible for them to operate within the guidelines so they closed voluntarily. That was the weekend before paddy’s day I think, I cant remember the exact timeline though. By the time the government mandated non essential places to close most were already shut.
 

It’s not like Ireland is some utopia. I was more optimistic last week than I am now. Ok the numbers aren’t out of control but there is so much that needs to happen in terms of testing and contact tracing before we can open up and I don’t see it happening in 3 weeks. Levels of testing aren’t increasing as fast as they need to and we have no masks for people to wear in public and we’re going to need millions of them. 

[Ozanne]

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Whatever you think about the politics of Boris Johnston it’s been good to hear him thank the Portuguese and New Zealander nurses that cared for him. Hopefully that might go some way to change the minds, if that’s possible, of the narrow minded who see immigration as something to be criticised.

When this shit is over let’s hope no one forgets the role played by those from other countries on whom the NHS depends 

That’s great, can I get some praise for never once being racist or saying something prejudice against people from another country? Or are we just praising people who were that way and have now changed tack.

[Ozanne]

36 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

In which case a number of other countries are guilty - not just the UK.

The Government haven't handled things perfectly by  any means but I shudder to think where we'd be if Labour had won the General Election. 

This is another thing I’ve seen mentioned online, we can’t criticise the Tories for their very real failings here because ‘they weren’t to know’ how bad it would get.

 

We’ve got to give all the benefit of the doubt to the Tories guys, it this isn’t their fault. Just like it never is. 

[charlierc]

37 minutes ago, jparx said:

 

Probably in the same position, since they wouldn't have had enough time to repair 10 years of damage to the NHS. 

Well yes - there were about 2 months between the election and the first wave of coronavirus cases appearing in Italy. Would you really have had time to do that much in preparation for a potential multi-level nightmare like this?

[Ayrshire Chris]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

you think govt are going to change their points based immigration system now?

No, me neither.

True, you won’t change career politicians who are only interested in chasing the populist vote but hopefully it just might open some folks minds to the incredible benefits immigration has brought to this country. Maybe I am showing too much faith in human nature but if the people show their support for it then politicians have to take note. I’ve spent a long life supporting so called lost causes and know that you win some, lose some but never give up hope. 

[Rumblestripe]

50 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

In which case a number of other countries are guilty - not just the UK.

The Government haven't handled things perfectly by  any means but I shudder to think where we'd be if Labour had won the General Election. 

I think that Labour would have handled the situation far better givent that they would have been led by someone who isn't a sociopath.

But that is just as much bolloxx as your posting. Straight from the Conservative Party play book of confuse, divert and obfuscate, I hope they are paying you. Stuff like that will just let them off the hook for their failures. Failures that continue to cost the lives of our friends and families. I guess you voted Blue and wish to salve your blackened soul?

It doesn't matter what Labour, Liberal or Green MIGHT have done, it matters what Johnson et al have done and they must answer for their actions.

[stuartbert two hats]

15 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This is another thing I’ve seen mentioned online, we can’t criticise the Tories for their very real failings here because ‘they weren’t to know’ how bad it would get.

 

We’ve got to give all the benefit of the doubt to the Tories guys, it this isn’t their fault. Just like it never is. 

Indeed. I don't know if anyone else watches the videos from Dr John Campbell (retired A&E nurse turned academic), but he's been banging the drum and sounding warnings for months. He was utterly baffled at allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. "Proactivity not reactivity" was the mantra. Anyone who understands anything about exponential numbers knows that early intervention makes a huge, huge difference. I know things were moving quickly, but at least one week went by when it was very very obvious what was going on and the lockdown didn't happen.

Not to mention the inexcusable inaction on sourcing ventilators, PPE.

[stuartbert two hats]

5 minutes ago, Rumblestripe said:

I think that Labour would have handled the situation far better givent that they would have been led by someone who isn't a sociopath.

But that is just as much bolloxx as your posting. Straight from the Conservative Party play book of confuse, divert and obfuscate, I hope they are paying you. Stuff like that will just let them off the hook for their failures. Failures that continue to cost the lives of our friends and families. I guess you voted Blue and wish to salve your blackened soul?

It doesn't matter what Labour, Liberal or Green MIGHT have done, it matters what Johnson et al have done and they must answer for their actions.

Well put.

[zahidf]

Eamon Holmes saying on this morning that he blames 5g for coronavirus...

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by zahidf

[zahidf]

 

 

[Ayrshire Chris]

9 minutes ago, Rumblestripe said:

It doesn't matter what Labour, Liberal or Green MIGHT have done, it matters what Johnson et al have done and they must answer for their actions.

Correct, successive governments have spent billions on the very unlikely event that there is a nuclear threat to the country .  Whereas it’s been predicted for decades that there is a real threat of a pandemic we have ignored calls from scientists to prepare for it. Johnson is the current incumbent so should be held responsible for the response to the current situation but previous governments have to answer for the lack of preparedness. 

[gizmoman]

9 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Indeed. I don't know if anyone else watches the videos from Dr John Campbell (retired A&E nurse turned academic), but he's been banging the drum and sounding warnings for months. He was utterly baffled at allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. "Proactivity not reactivity" was the mantra. Anyone who understands anything about exponential numbers knows that early intervention makes a huge, huge difference. I know things were moving quickly, but at least one week went by when it was very very obvious what was going on and the lockdown didn't happen.

Not to mention the inexcusable inaction on sourcing ventilators, PPE.

I watch John Campbells stuff, he's not a medical doctor (doctor of philosophy) but he clearly has plenty of medical expertise as a nurse and nurse trainer, he analyses and comments on the figures but some of his conclusions have been iffy IMO, always good to get someones take on things but is his opinion any more valuable than anyone elses? The government could have moved a lot faster in hindsight but the fact is everyone underestimated this, certainly everyone on here did, we all thought we were going to Glastonbury a few short weeks ago.

[Ozanne]

16 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Indeed. I don't know if anyone else watches the videos from Dr John Campbell (retired A&E nurse turned academic), but he's been banging the drum and sounding warnings for months. He was utterly baffled at allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. "Proactivity not reactivity" was the mantra. Anyone who understands anything about exponential numbers knows that early intervention makes a huge, huge difference. I know things were moving quickly, but at least one week went by when it was very very obvious what was going on and the lockdown didn't happen.

Not to mention the inexcusable inaction on sourcing ventilators, PPE.

Agreed. Hell they even had their fucking war games scenario give them the warning of how bad this event would be back in 2017. They did nothing because they didn’t want to spend the money. But it’s not the Tories fault, we can’t possibly criticise them; we’ve all got to band together here.

 

I’d love to be able to get away with nearly half of what they can get away with.
 

On another note we can slag off Labour for probably doing just as bad if they had won the election; which they didn’t. So it’s a completely irrelevant point.  

[zahidf]

 

[Madyaker]

Is the cure worse than the disease though? Hard to make that argument when people are still dying in numbers. Also with almost every country taking a similar hit to gdp is it really as bad as it sounds?

[Ozanne]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

I don’t mean to sound dumb, but if compliance has significantly exceeding the modelling then why are the numbers no better?

[stuartbert two hats]

37 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

I watch John Campbells stuff, he's not a medical doctor (doctor of philosophy) but he clearly has plenty of medical expertise as a nurse and nurse trainer, he analyses and comments on the figures but some of his conclusions have been iffy IMO, always good to get someones take on things but is his opinion any more valuable than anyone elses? The government could have moved a lot faster in hindsight but the fact is everyone underestimated this, certainly everyone on here did, we all thought we were going to Glastonbury a few short weeks ago.

I don't want the overstate his credentials, he's an informed educator. BTW, in case anyone is confused, he didn't study philosophy, he has a Ph.D in teaching bioscience in a nursing context. (I'm not suggesting you're confused giz, but it can be an area of confusion)

I bring him up not as an example of a great hero that saw what nobody else did, but as a highly informed layman to whom all the mistakes of our government were obvious at the time. It's not because he has an especially unique perspective - quite the opposite - there must have been many, many other who could see it. He didn't have special insight in the slightest.

But we didn't all think we were going to Glastonbury a few weeks ago. Most of us did on the first poll, but quite a few thought it wasn't happening. And I think the tide had turned before the lockdown.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by stuartbert two hats

[gizmoman]

2 hours ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Whatever you think about the politics of Boris Johnston it’s been good to hear him thank the Portuguese and New Zealander nurses that cared for him. Hopefully that might go some way to change the minds, if that’s possible, of the narrow minded who see immigration as something to be criticised.

When this shit is over let’s hope no one forgets the role played by those from other countries on whom the NHS depends 

Some who are anti immigration are so because they are racist, some just believe the numbers are not sustainable, you don't have to be narrow minded to see that immigration has benefits and downsides. As for the NHS, around 80% of the staff are white British which is in line with the general population, don't think there are any figures for immigration status but the fact is immigrants create an additional demand on the NHS so the additional imported staff are working for everyone, immigrants and "natives". If you had zero immigration you would have 20% less staff but also around 20% less demand. (these are all ballpark figures and I know ethnicity and immigration are not exactly comparable but the point still stands).

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I don’t mean to sound dumb, but if compliance has significantly exceeding the modelling then why are the numbers no better?

We haven't reached the point when compliance is coming up in numbers? I'm also worried that it could be because (London especially) is so high in population density that these are the numbers when compliance is high

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

We haven't reached the point when compliance is coming up in numbers? I'm also worried that it could be because (London especially) is so high in population density that these are the numbers when compliance is high

Didn’t they say it would take 2 weeks to see any benefit of lockdown though? It’s been 3 and compliance has been higher, in my simple brain I’d have thought we’d be seeing some benefit by now, given they indicated that 2 weeks. 

[Homer]

4 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Some who are anti immigration are so because they are racist, some just believe the numbers are not sustainable, you don't have to be narrow minded to see that immigration has benefits and downsides. As for the NHS, around 80% of the staff are white British which is in line with the general population, don't think there are any figures for immigration status but the fact is immigrants create an additional demand on the NHS so the additional imported staff are working for everyone, immigrants and "natives". If you had zero immigration you would have 20% less staff but also around 20% less demand. (these are all ballpark figures and I know ethnicity and immigration are not exactly comparable but the point still stands).

I thought that the fact that a lot of 'seasonal' Eastern European workers are younger meant that immigrants actually use the NHS less on average?