When will this shit end?

[Cream Soda]

4 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I don't think so because the parties in power are pretty happy with the status quo. I don't think Labour have ever really got behind it have they?

I don't really understand why, it would give all parties some input into how the country is run at all times which has to be better than going for long stretches with no power.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

That's not my experience. There was huge overt hostility from within the Corbyn supporting wing of the party (although admittedly not from the man himself) to the "neo-libs".

I would consider comments like "get their head out of their arse and accept the reality" overt hostility! And yeah it definitely happened both ways, but the size and scope of the anti-Labour movement within Labour shown within that report should make anyone who backed Corbyn angry. And those people are still working for the party because it's not actually been published and acted on at this point.

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/04/12/leaked-document-accuses-senior-right-wing-labour-staff-working-against-corbyn-and-reveals-their-dismay-at-electoral-surge/

Skwawkbox is not a good source but you can read bits of the document there. The actual thing is available on darker corners of the internet if you wanted to look. I came out of it convinced Corbyn would actually have won a majority that first election were it not for internal opposition and you might to, and that's depressing as hell.

[Homer]

3 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

The perennial problem with PR is that it makes sense to everyone, apart from the party who has just won under the old system.

I read a load of stuff by Andrew Elliott (Dominic Cummings' boss who links him to the US hard right) the other day where he was saying that the big turning point for everything we are seeing now was the AV vote losing back in 2011, as it would have hobbled the Tories ever since if it had gone the other way. (He even speculated that Corbyn would be PM of a minority government and we would still be in the EU.)

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 minutes ago, Homer said:

I read a load of stuff by Andrew Elliott (Dominic Cummings' boss who links him to the US hard right) the other day where he was saying that the big turning point for everything we are seeing now was the AV vote losing back in 2011, as it would have hobbled the Tories ever since if it had gone the other way. (He even speculated that Corbyn would be PM of a minority government and we would still be in the EU.)

Christ that's depressing. One of the lowest turnouts ever that vote, wasn't it? Can't remember if it was even close. Suspect not.

[Crazyfool01]

So today looks like its Boris on the Podium ....... announcing openings ..... shocker !!!!  

[DeanoL]

6 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I don't really understand why, it would give all parties some input into how the country is run at all times which has to be better than going for long stretches with no power.

I think it's something more fundamental than even the parties in power wanting to keep power. It's the same reason there was queuing round the block to vote last week. It's part of the majority vote / whips / file along in aisles "way we do things" in UK government. Half of it comes down to which parties can control their own MPs the best - mostly through threats/promises. Moving to a system like PR, where actually *winning the debate* matters in terms of convincing people across the house to vote with you would mean major changes to that, and the people that enable that tradition power structure won't let it happen.

[Homer]

2 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Christ that's depressing. One of the lowest turnouts ever that vote, wasn't it? Can't remember if it was even close. Suspect not.

Nowadays, I can't even remember the campaign or if I voted in it to be honest!

[DeanoL]

 

6 minutes ago, Homer said:

I read a load of stuff by Andrew Elliott (Dominic Cummings' boss who links him to the US hard right) the other day where he was saying that the big turning point for everything we are seeing now was the AV vote losing back in 2011, as it would have hobbled the Tories ever since if it had gone the other way. (He even speculated that Corbyn would be PM of a minority government and we would still be in the EU.)

And Nick Clegg would be regaled as a hero that saved the UK - weird that!

[Homer]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

So today looks like its Boris on the Podium ....... announcing openings ..... shocker !!!!  

Ha ha - my mate called this the other day! Apparently Johnson is stepping up to do one a week now = and he said he reckoned it would be today as he's already got to come in for PMQs!

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

So today looks like its Boris on the Podium ....... announcing openings ..... shocker !!!!  

PMQs first, if he doesn't hide.

If he does both it'll be the first time he's done a few hours work in a day.  

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Homer said:

Ha ha - my mate called this the other day! Apparently Johnson is stepping up to do one a week now = and he said he reckoned it would be today as he's already got to come in for PMQs!

he wasn't there yesterday on the announcement of the schools staying closed  ..... I look forward to pmqs and seeing Boris make a mess of it .... ( although obviously id like them to have dealt with the current situation well ) its past that now 

[Zoo Music Girl]

4 minutes ago, Homer said:

Nowadays, I can't even remember the campaign or if I voted in it to be honest!

I definitely did and was very pro it at the time (albeit not as good as PR) but it felt doomed from the start as a sop to the Lib Dems.

[Zoo Music Girl]

4 minutes ago, Homer said:

Ha ha - my mate called this the other day! Apparently Johnson is stepping up to do one a week now = and he said he reckoned it would be today as he's already got to come in for PMQs!

 

1 minute ago, Neil said:

PMQs first, if he doesn't hide.

If he does both it'll be the first time he's done a few hours work in a day.  

Pretty sure he did both last week didn't he? But yeah he's working about a half day a week at the mo.

[priest17]

People who'd rather not vote for labour coz they think centre left is as bad as the conservative party is... I dunno I'm lost for words.

One thing that's become really obvious over the last few years is that the UK is just flat out right wing at this point, I don't think there's an MP alive that could take it fully to the left. You'd need Beyonce or someone as leader of the opposition for that. And even she'd struggle coz we're also a racist country so...

[zahidf]

Tbh the far left seem a bit nuts

 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, priest17 said:

People who'd rather not vote for labour coz they think centre left is as bad as the conservative party is... I dunno I'm lost for words.

One thing that's become really obvious over the last few years is that the UK is just flat out right wing at this point, I don't think there's an MP alive that could take it fully to the left. You'd need Beyonce or someone as leader of the opposition for that. And even she'd struggle coz we're also a racist country so...

I think one of the big turn offs for Jez was his reaction to the Salisbury poisonings and refusal to condemn russia when it was super obvious it was them. I don't think you have to be massively right wing to find that a massive turn off tbh.

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

I think one of the big turn offs for Jez was his reaction to the Salisbury poisonings and refusal to condemn russia when it was super obvious it was them. I don't think you have to be massively right wing to find that a massive turn off tbh.

Honestly I think more than anything else it was the IRA connections that did him in, especially in the Midlands / Northern working class areas. Regardless of the truth of that or not it freaked a lot of people out as it's still very much in the memories of those 40+

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

Honestly I think more than anything else it was the IRA connections that did him in, especially in the Midlands / Northern working class areas. Regardless of the truth of that or not it freaked a lot of people out as it's still very much in the memories of those 40+

Wasnt as much of a factor in 2017 though when it was bought up a lot more

[zahidf]

Boris seems to have a lot of Tory MPs annoyed

 

Jack Blanchard has a good scene-setter in his London Playbook briefing for Politico Europe. He writes:

The prime minister faces Keir Starmer for PMQs at noon amid mounting concern on his own back benches about the government’s faltering approach to unlocking the UK economy. Tory MPs are angry about the failure to reopen English schools; dismayed by the adherence to 2-meter social distancing; fuming about airport quarantine rules; and concerned the “world-beating” test and trace system is anything but. The discontent is growing, and it will be fascinating to see how much spills over today ....

Newsnight’s Nick Watt is hearing the very same grumbles from Tory MPs. “I am picking up real unease from Conservative MPs about Boris Johnson’s handling of this phase of the pandemic,” Watt reported last night. “Grave disappointment on that announcement on schools, lots of Tory MPs blaming that on the failure to overrule scientists on the 2-metre rule. Tory MPs believe cutting the 2-metre rule down to 1 meter is absolutely at the heart of the wider opening of the economy … One very senior Tory MP said to me: ‘Our leadership is pitiful. Boris Johnson needs to be honest. Opening up the economy brings risks. If we don’t do this we are heading for economic catastrophe.’”

[Crazyfool01]

following on from a report that the uk is going to be hardest hit economy of the Developed nations .... How many questions does Starmer get at PMQs ? 

[squirrelarmy]

What’s actually wrong with being neither far left nor far right? 
 

Surely a more moderate approach has a chance of pleasing people from the full range of the political spectrum. 
 

Forcing people to choose an extreme is the literally dividing the country which isn’t what we should be doing.

[DareToDibble]

I think that’s the point people are trying to make about Starmer. If he is centre-left rather than far left he has a much better chance as he won’t be seen as so divisive.

Question on PMQs. I’m assuming Starmer only gets x amount of time/questions? Always wondered how that works.

[steviewevie]

OECD reckon UK economy going to be worst hit from coronavirus.

[DeanoL]

9 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

What’s actually wrong with being neither far left nor far right? 
 

For me, it's that the personal sacrifices I might be asked to make (as someone earning the above average wage) may not be worth the relatively small societal benefits.

I'd be willing to take a bit hit to my wallet and income for nationalised utilities and transport, world-class healthcare for all and an end to homelessness. 

I'm less willing to do that for an extra quid on working tax credit.

It'll depend on Starmer's actual policies of course. There's a decent chance he won't want to tax middle-earners anyway, or that he'll still proceed with some of the re-nationalisation just a bit more selectively. But that's the worry. That's why I might end up voting Lib Dem.

(And yeah, that's throwing my vote away, but it's Labour stronghold here so voting usually is)

[Cream Soda]

Just realised that this time in 2 weeks I'd have been en route 😭 I really hope it pisses it down all weekend.