When will this shit end?

[km9]

We all seem calm this morning 😁

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Fair enough, different strokes for different folks innit.

Mine is definitely the minority view on such things though 😂. A constant daily struggle to remember that in every day conversation offline...

Edited March 16, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[DeanoL]

 

10 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

There is no doubt that a handful of cases will have occurred from the vigil (Albeit mitigated by the fact that it was outside and masks were worn). 

 

However, a handful of covid cases is a very small price to pay for the safety of women to walk the streets as and when they please.

If that was the trade off I'd go down there and get COVID myself for them. But it's not. The vigil won't magically fix the problem. I'll be all in favour of protests supporting this when we're out of lockdown.

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

Just following the facts.  I did the same with the policing of the vigil.  Presume you also watched sky's report on that ? 

Nothing wrong with annoying people and having a different opinion.  Funny enough no one annoys me here for having alternative view points no matter how crazy.  More makes me laugh.

It's snowing heavily recently.  Bit unusual for March.

I think you may have pushed the "snowflake" metaphor a bit too far, given what happens in the UK when there's even a dusting of snow is that the schools shut down, half of us get the day off work, the roads become barely traversable and the entire country practically shuts down like a lockdown rehearsal.

You get a few of us snowflakes together and we're not easily ignored.

[DeanoL]

This vaccine nationalism stuff is all nonsense. The point of the EU is that it's a union, with different members, each with their own skills and specialisms. Yes, as a country we are great at vaccine-related stuff. It's why the EEA was headquartered in London until we left, and the MHRA was a big part of it. We were the experts in that. We left and the EU lost our expertise, and we retained it. So when the need came for that, we did better. Of course we did.

The question is, how many things are there like that, where we are top in Europe? There's not many. And that's not because Britain is shit, it's because we are one state and they are twenty-seven states. It's just the law of averages - they've got more people, more diverse experience, chances are for any given thing they'll have someone better than we are. But in a few cases they won't - that was part of what we bought to the EU.

It was dumb luck that the very first post-Brexit crisis happened to be a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic. In future challenges, we'll see the EU doing consistently better.

[stuie]

1 hour ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Ahh, I see. You select facts to fit your agenda. Sorry, I shouldn't have bothered you. 

There are plenty of experts and studies that conclude the risk of outdoor transmission is negligible.  I don’t select facts to suit my agenda but I do not accept everything that has been fed to us in the pressers.

It’s suited our establishment to tell us about the risk of outdoor transmission because they haven’t wanted us to go outdoors during lockdowns.  
 

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/223/4/550/6009483

[Mr.Tease]

Informative guest on the decision to halt the Oxford/AZ vaccine, at around the 53min mark:

So essentially, the issue is that the rare form of blood clots (usually relating to low platelet counts), may therefore point to an an immunizational response being the culprit (but not proven), which is why it got flagged. However he says even if it was proven, the chances of catching covid and getting seriously ill are far far higher than the minute chance of a blow clot side effect.

So, I'm presuming, if the countries pausing it had an abundance of Oxford/AZ vaccine and were halting it, it would be a bad decision (as it would potentially risk far more lives than it would save) however because they are facing a shortfall anyways, a short pause probably wouldn't make any difference , especially if they can just catch up on the vaccines missed the following week.

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Informative guest on the decision to halt the Oxford/AZ vaccine, at around the 53min mark:

So essentially, the issue is that the rare form of blood clots (usually relating to low platelet counts), may therefore point to an an immunizational response being the culprit (but not proven), which is why it got flagged. However he says even if it was proven, the chances of catching covid and getting seriously ill are far far higher than the minute chance of a blow clot side effect.

So, I'm presuming, if the countries pausing it had an abundance of Oxford/AZ vaccine and were halting it, it would be a bad decision (as it would potentially risk far more lives than it would save) however because they are facing a shortfall anyways, a short pause probably wouldn't make any difference , especially if they can just catch up on the vaccines missed the following week.

France and Germany have a LOT of AZN vaccines sitting in the fridge. I dont really agree that leaving it there for more supplies rather than putting it in arms is the best idea

[efcfanwirral]

7 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Informative guest on the decision to halt the Oxford/AZ vaccine, at around the 53min mark:

So essentially, the issue is that the rare form of blood clots (usually relating to low platelet counts), may therefore point to an an immunizational response being the culprit (but not proven), which is why it got flagged. However he says even if it was proven, the chances of catching covid and getting seriously ill are far far higher than the minute chance of a blow clot side effect.

So, I'm presuming, if the countries pausing it had an abundance of Oxford/AZ vaccine and were halting it, it would be a bad decision (as it would potentially risk far more lives than it would save) however because they are facing a shortfall anyways, a short pause probably wouldn't make any difference , especially if they can just catch up on the vaccines missed the following week.

But on the flip side if its a batch problem or they find a common factor with these people it affected then they can take action. 

Though "benefits outweigh the risks" is so loaded that stopping it for numbers this low is probably stupid, we know that some people's bodies will react badly to vaccines put out at that scale and we just need to accept it I guess 

Edited March 16, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[zahidf]

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/pfizer-execs-highlight-significant-opportunity-hike-covid-vaccine-price-2021-3

 

Pfizer execs say there's a 'significant opportunity' to hike prices of its COVID vaccine

Wonder why AZN is being thrashed in Germany...

[Mr.Tease]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

France and Germany have a LOT of AZN vaccines sitting in the fridge. I dont really agree that leaving it there for more supplies rather than putting it in arms is the best idea

I don't either, but at least now I understand the thinking, even if I think it's the wrong call!

[xxialac]

4 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

This vaccine nationalism stuff is all nonsense. The point of the EU is that it's a union, with different members, each with their own skills and specialisms. Yes, as a country we are great at vaccine-related stuff. It's why the EEA was headquartered in London until we left, and the MHRA was a big part of it. We were the experts in that. We left and the EU lost our expertise, and we retained it. So when the need came for that, we did better. Of course we did.

The question is, how many things are there like that, where we are top in Europe? There's not many. And that's not because Britain is shit, it's because we are one state and they are twenty-seven states. It's just the law of averages - they've got more people, more diverse experience, chances are for any given thing they'll have someone better than we are. But in a few cases they won't - that was part of what we bought to the EU.

It was dumb luck that the very first post-Brexit crisis happened to be a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic. In future challenges, we'll see the EU doing consistently better.

Thank you for such a balanced view. Refreshing to read.

Of course the UK excels in some things. But the UK is a very small country and will have increasingly less relevance on a world stage now dominated by China and its periphery and the US.

Being part of an influential block was by far our best hope to have influence globally...and we've given that up. Getting vaccinations completed a couple of months early won't begin to make up for the far lower global influence, soft power and the inevitable weaker economy through inefficient and lower volumes of trade with the people we want to trade with most.

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

As well as being as subtle as a smack in the face, as pointed out repeatedly, you don't back up most things with facts. 

Fact.

Beats all of the passive-aggressive crap that passes for debate here tho. 

[Hannibal Schmitt]

Biotech/Pfizer delivering 10. Mio. doses to EU earlier than initially stated which will make the period from April to June more than a total of 200 Mio.

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Beats all of the passive-aggressive crap that passes for debate here tho. 

It takes some considerable skill to earn a negative community rating after 12,000 odd posts so people on here don't agree.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, zahidf said:

France and Germany have a LOT of AZN vaccines sitting in the fridge. I dont really agree that leaving it there for more supplies rather than putting it in arms is the best idea

No, but they've suspended using AZ vaccine so they can't.

I agree it's not a good idea though.

[balthazarstarbuck]

Anyone else noticed how when the vaccine is being rolled out successfully and jabbing hundreds of thousands a day it’s called the Oxford Vaccine, but when it’s got questionable efficacy and killing people with blood clots it’s the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Andy Murray all over again.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

Anyone else noticed how when the vaccine is being rolled out successfully and jabbing hundreds of thousands a day it’s called the Oxford Vaccine, but when it’s got questionable efficacy and killing people with blood clots it’s the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Andy Murray all over again.

It was the same thing with the Test and Trace literature having NHS branding on it but the vaccination posters we saw had the Conservative Party branding on it. 

[DeanoL]

 

17 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

That's a huge question which I only have time to give a simple answer too...

Imagine every British based business with a global presence of any size that is currently held back by domestic covid restrictions. 

What, both of them?

I'm being facetious but I think your argument is good, the problem is it's mostly just manufacturing and that's about 12% of our economy these days. They will benefit a lot from "beating" others to reopening but they are a small part of what we do. Our main export remains financial services and they've not been forced to stop in the pandemic.

There is a big question mark around tourism though - getting that open early and first over summer could be huge, but that to work, you need to open the country up to non-vaccinated individuals holidaying from elsewhere.

 

 

[Hannibal Schmitt]

6 minutes ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

Anyone else noticed how when the vaccine is being rolled out successfully and jabbing hundreds of thousands a day it’s called the Oxford Vaccine, but when it’s got questionable efficacy and killing people with blood clots it’s the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Andy Murray all over again.

Never used that term in Europe and probably never will be. But that has`t anything to do with efficacy or blood clots. nobody would understand oxford vaccine here, but everyone knows Astra Zeneca from the start.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

Anyone else noticed how when the vaccine is being rolled out successfully and jabbing hundreds of thousands a day it’s called the Oxford Vaccine, but when it’s got questionable efficacy and killing people with blood clots it’s the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Andy Murray all over again.

It's always AZ to me.

[steviewevie]

 

[Hannibal Schmitt]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Yeah, but its more a storm in the Water glass. decision by EMA is expected between today and Thursday. Unless they forbid the vaccine they have only lost 2 or 3 days. More important is that their population will loose every trust in the AZ vaccine.

[zahidf]

Should we suspend the programme until this is investigated?

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Should we suspend the programme until this is investigated?

oh god, hope that doesn't happen to me.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Hannibal Schmitt said:

Yeah, but its more a storm in the Water glass. decision by EMA is expected between today and Thursday. Unless they forbid the vaccine they have only lost 2 or 3 days. More important is that their population will loose every trust in the AZ vaccine.

yeah, I expect trust was pretty low anyway, now they may as well give up with the AZ one.