When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

I don't HATE the government

I do.

[zahidf]

23 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Erm we do know? You're kinda just disregarding the last 12 months by saying look at it in the end.

- BoJo missed cobra meetings pre pandemic

- Said he would shake everyones hands setting the wrong impression 

- Lockdown 1 too late

- Dominic Cummings fiasco - untold amount of damage in public trust 

- School meals U turn

- Exam results U turn 

- Eat out to help out

- Lockdown 2 too late 

- Corruption by giving government mates contracts some of whom have no experience in the sector

- 22 billion on track and trace which does not work

- Lying at the beginning about people tested ( kept referring to capacity )

- worst death rate in Europe 

- Worst performing economy 

- 100k dead

- Kept our borders wide and open till this month - utter madness 

- Christmas going ahead (another political decision) 

 

The above is just off the top of my head, im sure there is more that I have missed. Regardless how the next few months pan out to the end of COVID - just half of the list above would be enough to conclude that the response has been nothing less than an utter failure. 

 

Taking your "you don't judge the season with games still left to play" analogy. If you won the league the previous year and by Christmas youre in the bottom half of the table, regardless, the season can be judged.

 

But in this analogy, the UK is in the champions league semi finals because of the vaccine programme...

[steviewevie]

Hopefully warmer weather will save many people's lives in Europe...and then hopefully again they can start mass vaccinations before next winter.

[efcfanwirral]

2 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Cases are still really high. Another few weeks of card reduction and vaccination and we should be in a much better place. If we put kids back next week and found that schools were enough to get positive case growth, the whole plan would be set back more than a few weeks. And there would be more death.

The timelines feel about right to me - as long as the government really does put the brakes on if cases start going up again.

 

1 hour ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I actually think the plan seems okay. Schools need to be first and leaving a three-week gap between each stage seems sensible. Non-essential shops aren't a big risk transmission wise. And so many more people will be vaccinated by the time the pubs open. Hopefully sitting outside will be a thing by that time too.

I've been cautious and critical of this government throughout, and I think often with good reason, but the vaccines do change the situation. Let's see how it goes, monitor each stage, and be ready to act if things go tits up (which is where they've failed previously).

Any mention of gyms in that roadmap?

This is my problem - I think any talk of this is just pacifying people who want to be careful, does anyone genuinely believe they're going to announce a date for pubs to open for example ("pubs rise like Jesus for bumper Bank hol weekend") and then go back on it? 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

21 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Erm we do know? You're kinda just disregarding the last 12 months by saying look at it in the end.

- BoJo missed cobra meetings pre pandemic

- Said he would shake everyones hands setting the wrong impression 

- Lockdown 1 too late

- Dominic Cummings fiasco - untold amount of damage in public trust 

- School meals U turn

- Exam results U turn 

- Eat out to help out

- Lockdown 2 too late 

- Corruption by giving government mates contracts some of whom have no experience in the sector

- 22 billion on track and trace which does not work

- Lying at the beginning about people tested ( kept referring to capacity )

- worst death rate in Europe 

- Worst performing economy 

- 100k dead

- Kept our borders wide and open till this month - utter madness 

- Christmas going ahead (another political decision) 

 

The above is just off the top of my head, im sure there is more that I have missed. Regardless how the next few months pan out to the end of COVID - just half of the list above would be enough to conclude that the response has been nothing less than an utter failure. 

 

Taking your "you don't judge the season with games still left to play" analogy. If you won the league the previous year and by Christmas youre in the bottom half of the table, regardless, the season can be judged.

 

So if in 6 months time were back to pretty much normal, hardly any deaths, hospitals not full of Covid patients and were nearly all vaccinated (which is potentially possible) - is that still an 'utter failure'?

All of the things you point out are failings - of course they are, but you can't judge the overall outcome at the moment because it is possible that we will find ourselves in a far better position that other countries in the fullness of times.

This does not excuse the mistakes and the pain, distress and death the mistakes have caused.

 

 

 

[aj6658]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

But in this analogy, the UK is in the champions league semi finals because of the vaccine programme...

hahaha yeah not even close, have you not read the list?

Ill be the first to say the vaccine program has been stellar but it doesn't absolve them of the errors they have made which has cost lives is being purposely disingenuous. 

[Ozanne]

Apologists Assemble!

I’m only joking before some get angry. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Ozanne

[stuartbert two hats]

3 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

This is my problem - I think any talk of this is just pacifying people who want to be careful, does anyone genuinely believe they're going to announce a date for pubs to open for example ("pubs rise like Jesus for bumper Bank hol weekend") and then go back on it? 

That's it isn't it? They have very strong form for not reacting quickly.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

So if in 6 months time were back to pretty much normal, hardly any deaths, hospitals not full of Covid patients and were nearly all vaccinated (which is potentially possible) - is that still an 'utter failure'?

All of the things you point out are failings - of course they are, but you can't judge the overall outcome at the moment because it is possible that we will find ourselves in a far better position that other countries in the fullness of times.

This does not excuse the mistakes and the pain, distress and death the mistakes have caused.

 

 

 

and this is it...I'm sure many will forgive and forget all the deaths and rejoice that life is better and hail Boris as some sort of Churchill or something.

[aj6658]

Just now, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

So if in 6 months time were back to pretty much normal, hardly any deaths, hospitals not full of Covid patients and were nearly all vaccinated (which is potentially possible) - is that still an 'utter failure'?

All of the things you point out are failings - of course they are, but you can't judge the overall outcome at the moment because it is possible that we will find ourselves in a far better position that other countries in the fullness of times.

This does not excuse the mistakes and the pain, distress and death the mistakes have caused.

 

 

 

Why are you so quick to sweep their mistakes under the rug?

There are friends, fathers, mothers and co workers who are not with us today because of this governments political decisions. Ive been stuck in the house since tier 4 so beginning of December. It didn't need to be like that. Look at New Zealand. That is what leadership is. 

Do you not remember when Boris said we should "take it on the chin" and let the virus spread through the country? Aka - lets kill 100 of thousands of people.

Again it never had to be like this, ever.  

[PM87]

Has the roadmap been published yet (or documents leaked) or is this the papers hypothesising? (Am catching up)

Edited February 13, 2021 by PM87

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

hahaha yeah not even close, have you not read the list?

Ill be the first to say the vaccine program has been stellar but it doesn't absolve them of the errors they have made which has cost lives is being purposely disingenuous. 

I’ve tried mate but some just don’t want to see it, to get anywhere you have to put in your post every other paragraph that they are doing well with the vaccine program. The usual defence comes out of ‘no government could’ve done better’ ignoring the fact that many have and ‘the pandemic isn’t over yet’ likening the deaths of over 100k people to a football game. It’s so disrespectful to the families that are grieving.

We can still learn from the many mistakes that have gone been made as country, acknowledge that this government has been one of the worst in the world at handling the pandemic and do that whilst we are in said pandemic.

If you are genuine defending the government now ask yourself this, if this was Corbyn after he’d won’t the 2019 election would be saying the same thing? I doubt it very much. The Tories are playing politics on easy mode whilst everyone else plays on hard. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

21 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I do.

Me too! Bunch of c**ts.

[stuartbert two hats]

3 minutes ago, PM87 said:

Has the roadmap been published yet or is this the papers hypothesising? (Am catching up)

Leaks/briefings, I think. Not official yet, they're gauging the public reaction before announcing.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Me too! Bunch of c**ts.

Me too. Shocker I know. But for transparency I hate the Tories.

[Zoo Music Girl]

17 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

This is my problem - I think any talk of this is just pacifying people who want to be careful, does anyone genuinely believe they're going to announce a date for pubs to open for example ("pubs rise like Jesus for bumper Bank hol weekend") and then go back on it? 

Yeah I can't deny it's a worry. But I am trying to be optimistic. The vaccines have got to make a difference here. We are in new territory.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Zoo Music Girl

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and this is it...I'm sure many will forgive and forget all the deaths and rejoice that life is better and hail Boris as some sort of Churchill or something.

I don't think people will forgive and forget as easily as all that obviously some will. The blokes a moron who should never be anywhere near government but we are where we are. 

8 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Why are you so quick to sweep their mistakes under the rug?

There are friends, fathers, mothers and co workers who are not with us today because of this governments political decisions. Ive been stuck in the house since tier 4 so beginning of December. It didn't need to be like that. Look at New Zealand. That is what leadership is. 

Do you not remember when Boris said we should "take it on the chin" and let the virus spread through the country? Aka - lets kill 100 of thousands of people.

Again it never had to be like this, ever.  

Its not sweeping them under the carpet I've said some of the mistakes are unforgivable, there are however inevitable in unprecedented circumstances. 

We aren't New Zealand though, we aren't China we aren't any other country. We are playing the hand we and nobody else has been dealt.

[aj6658]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I’ve tried mate but some just don’t want to see it, to get anywhere you have to put in your post every other paragraph that they are doing well with the vaccine program. The usual defence comes out of ‘no government could’ve done better’ ignoring the fact that many have and ‘the pandemic isn’t over yet’ likening the deaths of over 100k people to a football game. It’s so disrespectful to the families that are grieving.

We can still learn from the many mistakes that have gone been made as country, acknowledge that this government has been one of the worst in the world at handling the pandemic and do that whilst we are in said pandemic.

If you are genuine defending the government now ask yourself this, if this was Corbyn after he’d won’t the 2019 election would be saying the same thing? I doubt it very much. The Tories are playing politics on easy mode whilst everyone else plays on hard. 

Too right. if you cant be honest with yourself, how can you make an honest argument. Shows a basic ability to think critically. These are the same people who would be convinced by BoJos 3 word campaigns. 

Think this is the issue with politics these days. You're so ingrained to a political party that you cant be honest when yours has made a bad decision.

[thewayiam]

49 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Erm we do know? You're kinda just disregarding the last 12 months by saying look at it in the end.

- BoJo missed cobra meetings pre pandemic

- Said he would shake everyones hands setting the wrong impression 

- Lockdown 1 too late

- Dominic Cummings fiasco - untold amount of damage in public trust 

- School meals U turn

- Exam results U turn 

- Eat out to help out

- Lockdown 2 too late 

- Corruption by giving government mates contracts some of whom have no experience in the sector

- 22 billion on track and trace which does not work

- Lying at the beginning about people tested ( kept referring to capacity )

- worst death rate in Europe 

- Worst performing economy 

- 100k dead

- Kept our borders wide and open till this month - utter madness 

- Christmas going ahead (another political decision) 

 

The above is just off the top of my head, im sure there is more that I have missed. Regardless how the next few months pan out to the end of COVID - just half of the list above would be enough to conclude that the response has been nothing less than an utter failure. 

 

Taking your "you don't judge the season with games still left to play" analogy. If you won the league the previous year and by Christmas youre in the bottom half of the table, regardless, the season can be judged.

 

 

25 minutes ago, zahidf said:

But in this analogy, the UK is in the champions league semi finals because of the vaccine programme...

 

17 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

hahaha yeah not even close, have you not read the list?

Ill be the first to say the vaccine program has been stellar but it doesn't absolve them of the errors they have made which has cost lives is being purposely disingenuous. 

All 3 statements I probably couldn't have put it better myself.

[aj6658]

Just now, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

I don't think people will forgive and forget as easily as all that obviously some will. The blokes a moron who should never be anywhere near government but we are where we are. 

Its not sweeping them under the carpet I've said some of the mistakes are unforgivable, there are however inevitable in unprecedented circumstances. 

We aren't New Zealand though, we aren't China we aren't any other country. We are playing the hand we and nobody else has been dealt.

You are sweeping it under the rug by saying wait till the end. We can see the results here and now. Stop acting like any good from the next 6 months balances out the equation because it doesn't. Read my list again. All of those things were political decisions. They chose to starve kids and then reverse, they chose to open up for Christmas (but other religious holidays got 24 hours notice), they chose to delay the circuit breaker, they chose to send children to schools for one day saying it was say and the very next day change their tune. 

 

ill tell the 100k dead that Robert Prosineckis Lighter said you were gonna die anyway. You do realise how much of bellend you're sounding?  

How is how hand any different?!?! What are you on about? 

[aj6658]

Jesus Christ, just had to re-read the "We aren't New Zealand though, we aren't China we aren't any other country. We are playing the hand we and nobody else has been dealt."  - one of the dumbest comments on here. Not surprised he panders to anti-vaxxers

Mate, Boris isn't gonna shag you. 

@RobertProsineckisLighter

[Chapple12345]

 

[zero000]

 

Seeing stuff like this on Twitter is making my blood boil.  There will be an acceptable number of deaths from covid, just like we accept the risk from Flu. It’s also not true that people don’t experience long term damage from flu. 

 

There seems to be a constant stream of criticism from the left without any actual answers about how we come out of the pandemic.  Any semblance of normality returning is seen as the government being reckless, without considering the alternatives. 

 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, zero000 said:

 

Seeing stuff like this on Twitter is making my blood boil.  There will be an acceptable number of deaths from covid, just like we accept the risk from Flu. It’s also not true that people don’t experience long term damage from flu. 

 

There seems to be a constant stream of criticism from the left without any actual answers about how we come out of the pandemic.  Any semblance of normality returning is seen as the government being reckless, without considering the alternatives. 

 

the left?

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, zero000 said:

 

Seeing stuff like this on Twitter is making my blood boil.  There will be an acceptable number of deaths from covid, just like we accept the risk from Flu. It’s also not true that people don’t experience long term damage from flu. 

 

There seems to be a constant stream of criticism from the left without any actual answers about how we come out of the pandemic.  Any semblance of normality returning is seen as the government being reckless, without considering the alternatives. 

 

you really getting upset about this on twitter? I mean, there's a load of shit on there which will tell you what you want to hear...you just need to know who to follow...