When will this shit end?

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

They got a lot of protection when the whole of society shut down for them and the NHS.  They are welcome.

 

Ah so now we just don’t bother  to do something that’s very simple for their benefit … and everyone else’s ? 

[Crazyfool01]

Last word 😂

[august1]

Well that's one way to bring case numbers down

 

[efcfanwirral]

20 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I know the answer to this but honestly if he was anywhere near a decent leader and he truly thought things didn’t look for reopening on Monday then he should postpone it and think screw the political fallout. But he’s not a decent leader and will only think of his and his Party’s power.

Yeah I agree with this - this much was clear from the guidance last night being no different from the law.

But then we're in a bit of a situation now where even staying still isn't really going to bring cases down, we'd need to go backwards. But at least staying still could keep us steady. 

Opening up pretty much risks him having to actually lock down fully again, and surely politically that's worse than delaying even if we're expecting it?

Edited July 15, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[Crazyfool01]

Well my diabetes annual review is going to be interesting they are going to conduct my foot check over the phone ?after I’ve gone in and done bloods  I do wonder if there is really any point in it … but I’ll let them tick it off … No sense of a return to normal there … yet I had a face to face consultant appointment a few months back … the lack of consistency is what I find odd 

Edited July 15, 2021 by crazyfool1

[steviewevie]

21 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Yeah I agree with this - this much was clear from the guidance last night being no different from the law.

But then we're in a bit of a situation now where even staying still isn't really going to bring cases down, we'd need to go backwards. But at least staying still could keep us steady. 

Opening up pretty much risks him having to actually lock down fully again, and surely politically that's worse than delaying even if we're expecting it?

but his backbenchers would vote against further delay, right? Assuming they get a vote on this, not sure how it all works. He can rely on labour votes of course, but he'd then be very unpopular with his own MPs which could be the beginning of the end for Johnson. Don't get me wrong, he's a twat, but I think he was kind of stuck with this.

[zahidf]

Just now, steviewevie said:

but his backbenchers would vote against further delay, right? Assuming they get a vote on this, not sure how it all works. He can rely on labour votes of course, but he'd then be very unpopular with his own MPs which could be the beginning of the end for Johnson. Don't get me wrong, he's a twat, but I think he was kind of stuck with this.

The backbenchers allowed one delay from June. Another one isn't going to be possible politically 

[steviewevie]

Just now, zahidf said:

The backbenchers allowed one delay from June. Another one isn't going to be possible politically 

Do they get a vote on each delay?

[Copperface]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Do they get a vote on each delay?

They were granted a vote on the roadmap to pacify them even though there was no requirement for a vote.

The roadmap is separate from the Coronavirus Regs which are enacted under the Coronavirus Act, up for ministerial review in September (they can vote on it but it's non binding). Either all measures are passed or it is repealed, but that is unlikely because it provides a lot of admin stuff that helps the NHS and other measures.

A lot of the main restrictions are enacted by Ministerial Direction under the PH(CD) Act 84  and they are not voted on (this includes national bans on mass gatherings, for example) - the only thing that happens is that the Health Sec has to regularly review and judge whether they are still necessary to assist is a public health context. 

They could quite easily follow the roadmap but retain the restrictions under the PH(CD)A and claim that they have enacted the roadmap.

Feel like I'm back in August last year!

[MEGABOWL]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

I know the answer to this but honestly if he was anywhere near a decent leader and he truly thought things didn’t look for reopening on Monday then he should postpone it and think screw the political fallout. But he’s not a decent leader and will only think of his and his Party’s power.

Tory leaders always put Party first. It’s one of the things that makes them so good at winning elections.

Whereas a lot of the Labour Party seem to absolutely hate it. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Copperface said:

They were granted a vote on the roadmap to pacify them even though there was no requirement for a vote.

The roadmap is separate from the Coronavirus Regs which are enacted under the Coronavirus Act, up for ministerial review in September (they can vote on it but it's non binding). Either all measures are passed or it is repealed, but that is unlikely because it provides a lot of admin stuff that helps the NHS and other measures.

A lot of the main restrictions are enacted by Ministerial Direction under the PH(CD) Act 84  and they are not voted on (this includes national bans on mass gatherings, for example) - the only thing that happens is that the Health Sec has to regularly review and judge whether they are still necessary to assist is a public health context. 

They could quite easily follow the roadmap but retain the restrictions under the PH(CD)A and claim that they have enacted the roadmap.

Feel like I'm back in August last year!

errr..ok...thanks!

So, basically they could debate etc., but there wouldn't be a vote. but again there would be a lot of unhappy MPs blubbing on about liberty and stuff. Also...at heart Bojo is a libertarian, right? He certainly was against the smoking ban when that was happening, and he is against a tax on high fat/sugar food now. Just wish he'd hurry up and legalise drugs. And so is Javid, loves reading right wing libertarian porn The Fountainhead apparently. So, this stuff is not easy for them, goes against their core principles.

[Rex2]

I've been hearing that the tories won't put up with another delay since April 2020. It clearly doesn't mean a lot

[Copperface]

44 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

..at heart Bojo is a libertarian, right? He certainly was against the smoking ban when that was happening, and he is against a tax on high fat/sugar food now. 

Ah yes......sugar.

Wonder why that might be?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57852513

https://www.farminguk.com/news/-disgraceful-foreign-sugar-company-sponsors-conservative-conference_47544.html

There it is:

https://vip.politicsmeanspolitics.com/2019/09/25/daydream-belizers-brexit-big-sugar-and-the-bad-boys-from-belize/

[Guest]

1 hour ago, efcfanwirral said:

Yeah I agree with this - this much was clear from the guidance last night being no different from the law.

But then we're in a bit of a situation now where even staying still isn't really going to bring cases down, we'd need to go backwards. But at least staying still could keep us steady. 

Opening up pretty much risks him having to actually lock down fully again, and surely politically that's worse than delaying even if we're expecting it?

It is worse but he isn’t pragmatic like that, he only sees the issue immediately in front of him so can’t understand a potential problem 2 months down the line. 

[Chapple12345]

Pub near me is officially going to use Covid passports, I do wonder if they'll all eventually be forced into doing it 

[efcfanwirral]

2 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

Pub near me is officially going to use Covid passports, I do wonder if they'll all eventually be forced into doing it 

I honestly think the only way to open up "irreversibly" is to do this 

But to only make it vaccine proof - self reporting tests won't work. Still would on principle never use vaccine only proof but most would and I think its the only way 

Edited July 15, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I honestly think the only way to open up "irreversibly" is to do this 

But to only make it vaccine proof - self reporting tests won't work. Still would on principle never use vaccine only proof but most would and I think its the only way 

There needs to be some ending point though. Can't have that forever. 

[jannybruck]

3 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

Pub near me is officially going to use Covid passports, I do wonder if they'll all eventually be forced into doing it 

I just don't see how. Most of the ones near me are staffed by poorly paid people under 30, overworked at the best of times, aren't paid enough or have time to have to have discussions with punters about passport status or chuck people out because they don't have one. It just doesn't seem realistic at all.

[dingbat2]

5 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

Pub near me is officially going to use Covid passports, I do wonder if they'll all eventually be forced into doing it 

Cracking pub that, the Murderers, I have spent many a cracking night there, so my mates tell me! One of the best in Norridge

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, jannybruck said:

I just don't see how. Most of the ones near me are staffed by poorly paid people under 30, overworked at the best of times, aren't paid enough or have time to have to have discussions with punters about passport status or chuck people out because they don't have one. It just doesn't seem realistic at all.

door staff just ask ... like they would for ID for underage ? they dont need to chuck people out if they dont let them in to start with ... word soon gets out .... for some places of course it wouldn't be practical having someone on the door all day 

[Hannibal Schmitt]

8 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

Pub near me is officially going to use Covid passports, I do wonder if they'll all eventually be forced into doing it 

Fairplay, I think. Here clubs with indoor gigs only for the fully vaccinated from now on (because of Delta). Problem will be who controls this as it did`t work in many fields until now. But yeah, if it works there will be an old audience for clubs from now on.

[jannybruck]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

door staff just ask ... like they would for ID for underage ? they dont need to chuck people out if they dont let them in to start with ... word soon gets out .... for some places of course it wouldn't be practical having someone on the door all day 

Only the busiest city centre pubs really have doormen, and that's usually at the weekend. Giving the 'one young person manning the bar during the daytime' the responsibility to check passports of everyone who walks into the space, and put up with punters looking for an argument, just seems unrealistic.

I think of all my friends in their 20s/30s working in hospitality and not a single one of them would want to be arsed with the potential hassle and abuse. It just seems like a non-starter to me.

Edited July 15, 2021 by jannybruck

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

Final school night of the year - first lateral flow test on the boy. 

Tears, panic, worry, distress, makes me feel like an arsehole, raised voices, words with the Mrs and a burnt tea. 

Least the test is negative (although god knows if we got enough swabbing done). 

 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, jannybruck said:

Only the busiest city centre pubs really have doormen, and that's usually at the weekend. Giving the 'one young person manning the bar during the daytime' the responsibility to check passports of everyone who walks into the space, and put up with punters looking for an argument, just seems unrealistic.

I think of all my friends in their 30s working in hospitality and not a single one of them would want to be arsed with the potential hassle and abuse. It just seems like a non-starter to me.

yeah true ... thats kind of what I was meaning .... if someone asked me to do that in my job id tell them where to go ... I get enough shit as im sure those working in hospitality do to .... its a door job or nothing 

[efcfanwirral]

12 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

There needs to be some ending point though. Can't have that forever. 

Oh absolutely and that could even only be a few months - I'm still against it at all but this halfway house isn't going to work. Businesses need certainty and this mad attempt at a full reopening is giving the opposite. It's just a road to harsher restrictions.

Its also not workable i know, as people have said above. They'll have to find a way though before winter, so why not do it now? Maybe with a caveat of allowing 1 dose and test under whatever age should be reasonably able to have had one just for fairness. 

We're just heading into the worst of all worlds now 

Edited July 15, 2021 by efcfanwirral