When will this shit end?

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I understand that and if there are performance issues then that should be dealt with by that persons line manager with potentially more time in the office. But that should be on an individual basis and shouldn't stop people that are productive if not more so working remotely if they want to.

There's been reports that have said that the pandemic has sped up the evolution of office working why about 10 years. The toothpaste is out of the tube now and working life will never go back to how it was.

There are other issues depending on the work that you do, and who you work for that limit your ability to just choose to work from home.

FSA / Financial Regs, SC Clearence, Information Governance, loads of things.

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The toothpaste is out of the tube now

Are you the regional manager of the Slough branch of Wernham Hogg...?

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Nope, they should be paid more to compensate for the extra money they’re spending on heating and electricity.

A lot of employers are doing this, and you can claim a tax rebate 

[foolee]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Nope, they should be paid more to compensate for the extra money they’re spending on heating and electricity.

And the possible rent, rates, insurance costs, electric & water savings that companies get from WFH. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

12 minutes ago, onthebeach said:

What I would really like to work to bring life and vibrancy back to the city centres 24/7 would be empty retail and office space made into affordable apartments for 

- the young 18plus without children

- The older ones after children grown up moving back to the centres for the culture of theatres/restaurants etc, downsizing as not needing the space/land etc

People with young families being out in the suburbs/rural for schools, space etc etc

 

 

Problem with that is provision of services - and where are these people coming from? Why would they be in these towns and cities of they don't need to be there for work?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, foolee said:

And the possible rent, rates, insurance costs, electric & water savings that companies get from WFH. 

Businesses will also be able to downsize on their corporate real estate to saving more on costs that way.

[zahidf]

15 minutes ago, onthebeach said:

I appreciate this is your default position but it is worth reading this thread ....

https://mobile.twitter.com/Craig_A_Spencer/status/1382194449263038465

But you don't have to pause it. You can use it with a warning.

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

My business bought and fitted out a lovely new canalside premises in Glasgow weeks before the first lockdown. I'm sure they'll allow a little flexibility in WFH when it properly re-opens but no doubt they'll want to see their significant property investment occupied and will require attendance in most cases, which is totally understandable.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Businesses will also be able to downsize on their corporate real estate to saving more on costs that way.

Yep - and business rate revenue decrease leaving a funding gap meaning local services suffer..

Edited April 15, 2021 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[Fuzzy Afro]

Was moving house recently and I bought some cheap second hand furniture on gumtree from a small local business, when the chap came round to drop the stuff off he said that they’d been working from home for the entire pandemic and had decided to just go fully remote and exercise an early get out clause on their corporate rent because they hadn’t noticed any downturn in business due to WFH so the corporate rent was basically a waste of money. 

[onthebeach]

10 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Problem with that is provision of services - and where are these people coming from? Why would they be in these towns and cities of they don't need to be there for work?

Young for affordable housing and the bars/clubs mixing with same age group

Elders for ease of transport/culture/theatres/restaurants 

[fraybentos1]

It isn't just huge corporations like Greggs and Pret that benefit from people being working in offices, it's small local independents too. I work in a town just outside Glasgow and the local cafe i go to sometimes is fucked atm cause of offices and colleges being closed.

As ever on this thread, people get mixed up between what suits them and what benefits the majority. FWIW I think a mix between wfh and offices is fair enough. But to say you can do the exact same work from home 5 days p/w as in the office just is not true (exceptions of course). Things won't always be like this- we will get back to people in offices, meetings etc.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

5 minutes ago, onthebeach said:

Young for affordable housing and the bars/clubs mixing with same age group

Elders for ease of transport/culture/theatres/restaurants 

Thats the attraction with the shoeboxes thrown up in the 00's in many of the big cities already, along with jobs. 

[hodgey123]

I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

[hodgey123]

1 minute ago, hodgey123 said:

I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

And for what it’s worth, even though it’s entirely unfair and illogical, I would accept a pay cut as I think I’d still be better off net given the costs of a mortgage here would still be less than monthly rent in London, and no commuting costs/general London expenses. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, hodgey123 said:

I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

I presume you've been working effectively with no knock on productivity? Without the distractions of a full office people can be more productive working remotely, I think businesses realise this and can see after a year of the pandemic that productivity hasn't been hampered.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

3 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

I assume you would lose the London weighting if your contract changed to homeworking e.g. your place of work is your home address? 

[efcfanwirral]

Its an interesting debate to me- obviously very niche in services (digital marketing for me) but since I went freelance I've come across and worked with a lot of successful remote only companies. They hire freelancers to do the work needed at the time, with no overheads and a lot more flexibility to get the right work done than an agency who sometimes have to fit the work around the team they've got. In my very narrow field of work I'm actually finding everything much more efficient and things actually seem to get done and results achieved way more than before. 

Downside is obviously the more who accept (and even embrace) no employment rights is damaging to those rights overall. I'm very wary of that but there's not a lot I can do about it. I actually went freelance to travel a bit but after a year the pandemic hit so I've never really had to consider any of this as the plan wasn't really to freelance in normal life, never mind in a town vs a city!

Edited April 15, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I presume you've been working effectively with no knock on productivity? Without the distractions of a full office people can be more productive working remotely, I think businesses realise this and can see after a year of the pandemic that productivity hasn't been hampered.

This arguement of distractions is always my favourite in this discussion - it's not like there are no distractions at home.

[efcfanwirral]

10 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

I really hope my employer takes your stances on not cutting pay for full time working from home! They have sent a survey out this week and announcing their future of work plan in the next month or so. I fully expect that they will cut my pay however if they let me work from home rather than go back to London and attend the office once or twice a week (I would have to quit in this scenario as I am not moving back to London). Absolutely bonkers as I have been doing the same job remotely for over a year and would continue to be doing said job going forwards with literally no reason to go into the office. 

Taking away the London weighting side of it, but in general considering the amount they'd save from a smaller office a double saving by reducing wages is mad but a Tory wet dream really...

Edited April 15, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[hodgey123]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I presume you've been working effectively with no knock on productivity? Without the distractions of a full office people can be more productive working remotely, I think businesses realise this and can see after a year of the pandemic that productivity hasn't been hampered.

My productivity has improved! Working flexibly actually leads to me doing more (eg you realise time spent just scrolling social media could actually be productive and get ahead of work) and I don’t mind that - it is a much better trade off than chucking 2 hours a day down the train on a tube. 

[hodgey123]

6 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

I assume you would lose the London weighting if your contract changed to homeworking e.g. your place of work is your home address? 

Yeah I’m assuming I’d lose this weighting and go down to the regional bands. We had members in our team that relocated to different offices who are then on different bands which I can understand but equally do not agree with at all as it’s the same job in the same team! 

[hodgey123]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

Taking away the London weighting side of it, but in general considering the amount they'd save from a smaller office a double saving by reducing wages is mad but a Tory wet dream really...

Yeah exactly. Our team was too big pre-COVID so we had a WFH rota anyway, so even more so here. 

[Guest]

Just now, hodgey123 said:

My productivity has improved! Working flexibly actually leads to me doing more (eg you realise time spent just scrolling social media could actually be productive and get ahead of work) and I don’t mind that - it is a much better trade off than chucking 2 hours a day down the train on a tube. 

I thought that might be the case! I'm sure you're not the only one that has seen their productivity improve as well. Not just for the reasons you say but also because they are happier and in a more comfortable environment.

[Mr.Tease]

12 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It isn't just huge corporations like Greggs and Pret that benefit from people being working in offices, it's small local independents too. I work in a town just outside Glasgow and the local cafe i go to sometimes is fucked atm cause of offices and colleges being closed.

As ever on this thread, people get mixed up between what suits them and what benefits the majority. FWIW I think a mix between wfh and offices is fair enough. But to say you can do the exact same work from home 5 days p/w as in the office just is not true (exceptions of course). Things won't always be like this- we will get back to people in offices, meetings etc.

Everything changes-should everyone have kept renting videos in the 90s to stop video rental shops going bust? 

As some business's become no longer viable, other ones will become viable. If city centres see less business, rents will come down, reducing costs and possibly seeing retail space become residential space, which would then see an upswing of people living there, and available to use services like the cafes you're worried about. 

Just seem short sighted to think of it as a bad thing. 

Lots of us have lived in towns that declined partially due to people having to move to or commute to cities, now some of that might swing back