Article on Girls Festival vulnerability

[giantkatestacks]

Looking and listening to the teenagers around me I actually think it is worse now than 20 years ago. The way that teenage boys talk about girls is absolutely sickening to my ears and the girls seem to accept it as normal for the most part. It feels like we have gone backwards in a way in terms of consent and what is or is not acceptable in terms of sexual behaviour. 

[Homer]

4 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

Looking and listening to the teenagers around me I actually think it is worse now than 20 years ago. The way that teenage boys talk about girls is absolutely sickening to my ears and the girls seem to accept it as normal for the most part. It feels like we have gone backwards in a way in terms of consent and what is or is not acceptable in terms of sexual behaviour. 

The availability of hardcore porn has 'normalised' a lot of stuff that was pretty niche back in the day (more a comment re sex generally than consent).

[Casper86]

1 hour ago, guypjfreak said:

It'll be a sad day when men feel that they can't go out of their way to check if a girl is OK...

Its like children in a park nowadays.. If said child falls over years ago you would have automatically gone to pick up the child and see if they were OK..

Now you don't.. You look around to see if they have mum or dad around... Whether you realise it or not you do stop for a second... And think not my child shouldn't touch/help 

As its going this will go for women as well which is sad.. 

Just my opinion BTW 

Come on.. no one is saying you can't politely check on a women who might be unwell, it's when the unnecessary touching, coercion, taking advantage starts etc. that is the issue.

I understand you're being melodramatic for effect and it has a whiff of the men's right activist nonsense about "can't even say hello to woman nowadays innit" but seriously if you feel you can't ask a women  if she's ok without coming off like a predator then perhaps ask for some advice off female friends..?

Edited June 10, 2019 by Casper86

[barkley87]

1 hour ago, dentalplan said:

Not 100% sure how this works or if it would with my tent but this seems like an awesome idea in general for preventing theft.

Another good one for feeling safe in the tent and preventing theft while you're outside of it is to hook the zip on the main entrance to the tent to a tent peg and stick it in the ground slightly inside the tent so it's out of sight. If someone tries to unzip it they'll hopefully just think the zip is stuck and will leave.

Call my paranoid, but it makes me feel better!

[barkley87]

1 hour ago, scaryclaireyfairy said:

It's usually advised against for theft cos then the thief will just theoretically slit your tent and you've lost your wallet and a functioning tent. Also if you need to get out fast while not-sober and half asleep, eg in a fire situation, having your zips locked together would be a very bad thing.

Edit: It's not something I've done in recent years but tying something noisy to your zips on the inside can make you feel more secure. Even if it's just a couple of empty cider cans.

The way the clip is it's really easy to undo so it's much safer than a lock. Also as most criminals are opportunistic they'll likely go to another tent rather than cut one open, which is way more obvious and much more likely they'll get caught.

Edited June 10, 2019 by barkley87

[Tranquility of Solitude]

On Sunday 2017, I was up and about around 6am at my camp in Darble. Am always an early riser, and particularly wanted to go up the ribbon tower for some early morning pics. Walking through Silver Hays, a young girl, on her own and clearly the worse for wear, asked if I would accompany her at least part of the way back to her campsite in Pennards, which I was happy to do, as I was going that way anyway. Not sure why she asked, but perhaps she felt a bit safer in the company of someone older. Maybe she just wanted a chat. We had a great natter all the way about what we’d done/seen at that years festival. She turned left into Pennards and I went right up to the Ribbon Tower. She was lovely, and brightened up my morning. 

Don't really know the point of that story, or its relevance here, but this thread has been such a depressing read at times I thought I’d share it. It did cross my mind how vulnerable she was, but it’s Glastonbury. Irrespective of that, we all - men and woman -have the right to enjoy ourselves to the fullest, as long as we are not harming anyone, without feeling threatened. And feeling threatened/vulnerable has to be deeper and more frequent for women than men.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Tranquility of Solitude

[frostypaw]

35 minutes ago, Homer said:

The availability of hardcore porn has 'normalised' a lot of stuff that was pretty niche back in the day (more a comment re sex generally than consent).

I'm not sure that's the thing to be honest. Listen to music and the lyrics.

Not in some "rock and roll is the devil" way but a lot of awful ways of talking about women have been normalised that should imho be causing a bit more outrage. Porn's always been pretty degrading but general language has changed

As to the mild offence of being checked on that's what we, as men, have to accept to show we take this seriously - anything else is pretty much saying "oh come on, it's not really worth is it is?"

[dazednconfused]

33 minutes ago, Tranquility of Solitude said:

On Sunday 2017, I was up and about around 6am at my camp in Darble. Am always an early riser, and particularly wanted to go up the ribbon tower for some early morning pics. Walking through Silver Hays, a young girl, on her own and clearly the worse for wear, asked if I would accompany her at least part of the way back to her campsite in Pennards, which I was happy to do, as I was going that way anyway. Not sure why she asked, but perhaps she felt a bit safer in the company of someone older.

Love this. 

[CeriG]

1 hour ago, Homer said:

The availability of hardcore porn has 'normalised' a lot of stuff that was pretty niche back in the day (more a comment re sex generally than consent).

I definately agree with this. When I was younger the lads had a stash of porn mags..... these days you can go onto pornhub and access any kind of porn you want (very hardcore & graphic). And lets be honest in the majority of porn the female is the object.

However I do believe that inappropriate behaviour towards others is made more aware these days..... My daughter aged 12 has classes about it at school.  About what is considered sexual harassment etc. 

When I was younger having your bum pinched or your bra strap twanged was something that was just part and parcel of being a female. We were never told that this was inappropriate behaviour. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by CeriG

[ICGenie]

Maybe any guys who are taking this whole thing as a bit of an affront should spend some of their Glasto time here - https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/glastonbury-festival-shangri-la_uk_5cfd46a7e4b04e90f1cb2253?ncid=other_twitter_cooo9wqtham&utm_campaign=share_twitter&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL2hWd08wV0dBVGk&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALXv_jrBKV--Wwr5AkIRs4RIDV4s4ObYB5UqhVijmLJ-cZkvETyFi_6TqFXqDY5Vfam0byG7ZzXDOnZDxnGSv3KE9chz-cqn6Fq9nqZbXBFbIdpUyL0ODRbW8-heP45c6i4MJAVbQ4yZ6Y2TbY80FKyPViupqgLfmDgPJPm47rNP

[Homer]

2 minutes ago, CeriG said:

I definately agree with this. When I was younger the lads had a stash of porn mags..... these days you can go onto pornhub and access any kind of porn you want (very hardcore & graphic). And lets be honest in the majority of porn the female is the object.

However I do believe that inappropriate behaviour towards others is made more aware these days..... My daughter aged 12 has classes about it at school.  About what is considered sexual harassment etc. 

When I was younger having your bum pinched or your bra strap twanged was something that was just part and parcel of being a female. We were never told that this was inappropriate behaviour. 

Yeah, you're right, it's a hit of a double-edged sword.

As someone who was born in 1976, the rate of human development re what is acceptable has moved on so rapidly. You can almost see the human race evolving in that respect (not far enough though sadly).

[CeriG]

16 minutes ago, Homer said:

Yeah, you're right, it's a hit of a double-edged sword.

As someone who was born in 1976, the rate of human development re what is acceptable has moved on so rapidly. You can almost see the human race evolving in that respect (not far enough though sadly).

Sadly there will always be some people that will act wrongly.  I'd like to think that that number of people will decrease more and more over time though.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

2 hours ago, CeriG said:

I definately agree with this. When I was younger the lads had a stash of porn mags..... these days you can go onto pornhub and access any kind of porn you want (very hardcore & graphic). And lets be honest in the majority of porn the female is the object.

However I do believe that inappropriate behaviour towards others is made more aware these days..... My daughter aged 12 has classes about it at school.  About what is considered sexual harassment etc. 

When I was younger having your bum pinched or your bra strap twanged was something that was just part and parcel of being a female. We were never told that this was inappropriate behaviour. 

I agree. I feel that there may seem a rise in inappropriate behaviour but that is partly due to women feeling empowered to call it out. While we are nowhere near an ideal position society is getting away from the victim shaming of the past. 

[Homer]

1 hour ago, CeriG said:

Sadly there will always be some people that will act wrongly.  I'd like to think that that number of people will decrease more and more over time though.

As a species, we are actually gradually becoming less violent, the reason being that jail takes the naughty type out of the gene pool for significant periods of time (source, as with all good trivia/facts, Stephen Fry on QI)

[clarkete]

36 minutes ago, Homer said:

 (source, as with all good trivia/facts, Stephen Fry on QI)

Remember that sometimes they revise their own knowledge on QI from time to time so you could easily get caught out

 

[Homer]

6 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Remember that sometimes they revise their own knowledge on QI from time to time so you could easily get caught out

 

Oh yeah, how many moons are there again (classic Rich Hall)?!

[gigpusher]

4 hours ago, giantkatestacks said:

Looking and listening to the teenagers around me I actually think it is worse now than 20 years ago. The way that teenage boys talk about girls is absolutely sickening to my ears and the girls seem to accept it as normal for the most part. It feels like we have gone backwards in a way in terms of consent and what is or is not acceptable in terms of sexual behaviour. 

Yes it always feels a bit one step forward two steps back. There's a lot of things that happened to me that I absolutely would not let someone get away with now and I thought I was pretty feisty as a teenager. I punched the guy who started kissing me without even saying hello but he just walked away and only apologised to my boyfriend when he got back, never actually to me. 

Nowadays though I hear so many men and tenneagers describing women as objects as in I'd tap 'that', horrible dehumanising language and girls feel under pressure to be preened to within an inch of their lives. I'm glad I grew up in the era of grunge. All you needed was jeans, dm's and a check shirt whether you were male or female. 

[Homer]

1 minute ago, gigpusher said:

Nowadays though I hear so many men and tenneagers describing women as objects as in I'd tap 'that', horrible dehumanising language and girls feel under pressure to be preened to within an inch of their lives.

I think you'll find Richard Keys cleared that up for all us (albeit it in a rather hairy-handed... sorry. heavy-handed• way): it was "just banter"

(•I don't actually support the above view - I just needed to get the words 'heavy-handed' in to make a crap joke about Richard Keys having incredibly hairy hands.)

[gigpusher]

Just now, Homer said:

I think you'll find Richard Keys cleared that up for all us (albeit it in a rather hairy-handed... sorry. heavy-handed• way): it was "just banter"

(•I don't actually support the above view - I just needed to get the words 'heavy-handed' in to make a crap joke about Richard Keys having incredibly hairy hands.)

Yes the fact those 2 idiots are earning even more money doing the same shit in another country kind of reflects why it feels like we haven't moved on and it was just banter or it was just locker room talk is also another massive part of the problem. If men think behaving this way in front of other men makes them cooler then that shows how much change needs to happen. Being a real ally to women needs to involve men calling other men out on that kind of crap and showing that it is unacceptable. 

And as for the joke that UKIP candidate made about how he wouldn't even rape Jess Phillips he should be investigated for the people he would rape. I can understand if you really dislike someone saying you wouldn't have sex with them but saying you wouldn't rape them - all levels of wrong. 

I was also disgusted recently to see a thread in which somebody was boasting about how you could watch on loop for several minutes the rape scene of Emilia Clarke in Game Of Thrones on Pornhub.  I mean things like this really make me despair for humanity. 

 

[drunk pumpkin]

Just read through the majority of this thread (skipped the name calling bits) and it saddens me that in 2019 women can't feel safe in public spaces.

As a father of two teenage girls I worry for them whilst they are out but know they are both sensible enough to stay safe but also rely on the fact that most people are good and decent.

As functioning members of the human race we all should respect, honour and care for each other. 

If we see abuse or hatred we should challenge it. 

Everyone has the right to a happy safe festival experience and I hope we all have one.

Take personal responsibility for your actions and look out for your fellow man (and woman)

Also take your rubbish home with you!

[Nickyboy]

I started this thread last week simply because the BBC article piqued my curiousity and I wasn't sure of how much of an issue it was at festivals in general and Glastonbury specifically.  I think we are all aware that there is a proportion of men in wider society who have fairly 'basic' views on women (and fellow men as well to a certain extent), but as a nigh on 60 year old music fan, I was hoping that the proportion who attended music events was significantly lower, if not negligable.  I've always felt that music events in general bring out the communal, joyous best of humanity in us all.

I have attended festivals on numerous occasions over the years and not really seen anything untoward myself. However, this may be more a reflection of my ignorance / awareness / obliviousness than anything else.  This thread has predominantly been a depressing read for me as obviously the issue is ever present, even at the daddy of all festivals. 

I naively thought everyone had a good time, respected each other and had a life affirming experience - it has always been thus for me. I'm so sad that it doesn't seem to be that for everyone.

I'm not sure what the solution is, other than calling out what you see as unacceptable behaviour in the hope that shaming or embarrassing the perpetrator may make them think twice before doing it again, or reporting them to security if you can (not always practical in the massive crowds at festivals).

I also read a related article fairly recently about music concerts, and the increase in young girls (18 or less) complaining to security about been groped and felt inappropriately at gigs. Again, I haven't seen this myself, but then my visits to the front of concert halls has diminished as I've got older.

I despair sometimes

Edited June 10, 2019 by Nickyboy

[LadyP]

Ive just read this whole thread and have so many thoughts, I’ll try and keep it brief.

1. Women feel vulnerable in a myriad of situations. On the bus, out running, in bars, at gigs, and yes even at festivals. It sucks but that is OUR reality. It may not be yours, and you may feel we are “misrepresenting” reality, but our reality is unfortunately different to yours. Check your privilege!

2. Women should of course stick together! Never leave a friend alone if she’s spangled, check on each other whether they’re your best friend or a complete stranger, and generally help each other out. That’s not special treatment, or specific to glasto, it’s just being a decent human!

3. Frank Carter last year asked the women in the crowd how many had avoided crowd surfing because of the likelihood of getting touched up in the process. It was a lot! He then forbade all the men from crowd surfing, encouraged the women to do so and said if any of them got touched inappropriately he’d be ripping of heads and putting them on spikes. Frank gets it.

4. Of course it’s not all men! I’ve felt uncomfortable walking back to my tent late at night before, with a guy following me who I had already told I wasn’t interested. Thankfully I was able to join a group of lovely chaps who were sitting in their camp. I greeted them like long lost family and thankfully they picked up my signals and reciprocated, he soon sloped off! I spent a very happy hour with these absolute gents before meandering back in peace. There’s still a lot of love out there.

5. The fact that so many of you lovely efests chaps are shocked at how prevalent this is just goes to show how most men are completely oblivious. I consider the efests community to be pretty enlightened, so if you guys are surprised imagine how the average joe would feel! 

much love to all, be excellent to each other ?

[guypjfreak]

8 hours ago, Casper86 said:

Come on.. no one is saying you can't politely check on a women who might be unwell, it's when the unnecessary touching, coercion, taking advantage starts etc. that is the issue.

I understand you're being melodramatic for effect and it has a whiff of the men's right activist nonsense about "can't even say hello to woman nowadays innit" but seriously if you feel you can't ask a women  if she's ok without coming off like a predator then perhaps ask for some advice off female friends..?

I was just adding to wot somebody else said old son... I'm FINE with woman.. The wife makes sure of that lol

[balti-pie]

The Frank Carter diatribe in 2017 really opened my eyes to this whole topic. Fair play to him, he absolutely nailed it - touching people up opportunistically is a fucking disgrace and anyone caught doing it should get their heads bunged on a spike. 

It was really amusing directly afterwards with the female-only crowdsurfing and all the fellas in the crowd being mega-careful to only grab knees, elbows and the middle of the surfing girl’s backs ??? 

I’d happily call out ropey behaviour if I witnessed it though, I work with vulnerable adults so have to keep a professional eye out for it. It previously hadn’t really dawned on me to do that at gigs/festivals but I will. Getting shitfaced drunk/massively caned is absolutely no excuse for being a groping idiot.