Article on Girls Festival vulnerability

[I feel like Pablo]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

When you start painting women as a whole as the victims and men as a whole as the evil then you are on a slippery slope. If men aren't allowed to contribute to the conversation and are accused of "mansplaining" then its dangerous. 

But that is historically the truth. Women have been systematically oppressed by men. Nobody is saying all men are the problem, but enough of the majority of men have allowed for women to be the victims. 

Contributing to the conversation is one thing, telling us our feelings aren't valid when we have been the victim of assault is another. 

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, I feel like Pablo said:

But that is historically the truth. Women have been systematically oppressed by men. Nobody is saying all men are the problem, but enough of the majority of men have allowed for women to be the victims. 

Contributing to the conversation is one thing, telling us our feelings aren't valid when we have been the victim of assault is another. 

Point out to me where I said your feelings or anyone else's were not valid if you would.

[Amy Lawn]

Don't be a c**t with semantics in this thread of all places. Some users have felt safe enough to share their experiences and how that made them feel, hopefully that's cathartic and helpful for them. You coming in and telling them off going #notallmen is tone deaf and gives the impression that this thread and forum isn't a safe space.

[I feel like Pablo]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

Point out to me where I said your feelings or anyone else's were not valid if you would.

Ok. You said that a poster's feelings that women must look out for women as men don't take us seriously is 'hugely inaccurate'

[gigpusher]

13 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I don't doubt that society has been (and to a lesser extent is) dominated by men. Thats a very different thing to suggesting men don't take women or their sexual assault seriously or claiming that they won't react and therefore women need to have each others back as a result. It flies in the face of the most basic values of the festival as a whole and while there is definitely an issue with the minority of men it suggests there is a higher level conspiracy or culture among the majority of men (or even a significant proportion of glastonbury attending men) that feel this is irrelevant or a non issue. I 100% believe this to be inaccurate. 

I honestly think part of the problem is men thinking it is a minority of men. I don't know a woman who hasn't had a bad experience or some form of sexual assault albeit maybe not as serious as @Curlygirl experience. Either this tiny minority is working overtime at being creepers or more men are doing it than we like to acknowledge. I think some men need to admit that when drunk they act differently and not always appropriately. I think some men also take advantage of crowd situations to sneakily feel up women. 

It's why I'm glad venues like the sisterhood exist at Glastonbury. For some women knowing that there is a place they can go where they can be absolutely safe could be the difference between feeling able to go to a festival or not. 

[I feel like Pablo]

45 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I think saying that women need to stick together cos men don't take women seriously is hugely inaccurate, yes

See above 

[I feel like Pablo]

1 minute ago, gigpusher said:

I honestly think part of the problem is men thinking it is a minority of men. I don't know a woman who hasn't had a bad experience or some form of sexual assault albeit maybe not as serious as @Curlygirl experience. Either this tiny minority is working overtime at being creepers or more men are doing it than we like to acknowledge. I think some men need to admit that when drunk they act differently and not always appropriately. I think some men also take advantage of crowd situations to sneakily feel up women. 

It's why I'm glad venues like the sisterhood exist at Glastonbury. For some women knowing that there is a place they can go where they can be absolutely safe could be the difference between feeling able to go to a festival or not. 

Out of upvotes, but this is a manual upvote. 

[ian the worm]

This is so shit. 

Remember everyone.....  Whatever shit is happening, there are professional and volunteer adult, sober, men and women nearby that are guarding the party space. 

This means people can relax and get themselves pissed up, knowing full well that someone is watching out for the shit. 

The festival has a duty of care for everyone and this means they deploy enough police, bouncers, security, stewards, marshals, bar staff, mental health, fire, ambulance, doctors, traders etc to do just that.

Genuine, nice and helpful people who are looking after the event in each and every way. 

Just coz it’s in a field, it’s still done probably - and in fact it’s probably done better than everywhere due to the relativly short event. 

If ANY shit happens to ANYONE at ANYTIME, find ANY one of the 70,000 crew and we’ll ensure the right person is quickly found to help the situation. 

@Curlygirl I know we spoke about this event in 2016 and I’m sorry he wasn’t caught. 

xx

[gherkin8r]

3 minutes ago, I feel like Pablo said:

Ok. You said that a poster's feelings that women must look out for women as men don't take us seriously is 'hugely inaccurate'

Because it is a misrepresentation. 

[dentalplan]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

Because it is a misrepresentation. 

Of their own feelings?

[I feel like Pablo]

3 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

Because it is a misrepresentation. 

 

2 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Of their own feelings?

....? Really? 

[gherkin8r]

2 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

Of their own feelings?

I said I thought their feelings are a misrepresentation of the reality. Sometimes there is a disconnect. I'm not asking them to feel differently, just stating that I don't feel their feeling is an accurate representation of reality. Does that mean I'm not allowed to feel that way or is it only certain women who are allowed to feel anything about this and the rest have to accept it? 

[gherkin8r]

Are my feelings or opinions irrelevant here just because I feel differently or because I'm male? 

[I feel like Pablo]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

I said I thought their feelings are a misrepresentation of the reality. Sometimes there is a disconnect. I'm not asking them to feel differently, just stating that I don't feel their feeling is an accurate representation of reality. Does that mean I'm not allowed to feel that way or is it only certain women who are allowed to feel anything about this and the rest have to accept it? 

We need to believe the victims of assault. If you want to look up the stats of how many men kill women every week and tell me that women's feelings aren't valid then be my guest. 

You feeling something isn't an accurate representation of reality doesn't stop it being an accurate representation of reality. The stats are there to back it up. The women are there to tell you their stories. Speak to your female family members, friends, co workers. I guarantee you that they will ALL have their own stories of men behaving inappropriately towards them. 

[SouthbanKen]

26 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I don't doubt that society has been (and to a lesser extent is) dominated by men. Thats a very different thing to suggesting men don't take women or their sexual assault seriously or claiming that they won't react and therefore women need to have each others back as a result. It flies in the face of the most basic values of the festival as a whole and while there is definitely an issue with the minority of men it suggests there is a higher level conspiracy or culture among the majority of men (or even a significant proportion of glastonbury attending men) that feel this is irrelevant or a non issue. I 100% believe this to be inaccurate. 

There is overwhelming evidence of society (read men as you agree we live in a patriarchy) not taking the sexual safety of women seriously, that is what I was alluding to when i was talking about the % of convictions. 

Whilst there may not be an overt conspiracy amongst men to downplay this issue, there is most definitely a large proportion of men who are blind to the fact that it is an issue and have done very little to change it. I do believe that this is changing, but not fast enough and those that continue to downplay it like yourself are, I am afraid to say, part of the problem. 

What you believe and the pointless percentage you attribute to it is irrelevant. If you can provide evidence to support your believe other than “my mates are good blokes so it can’t really be an issue” then it becomes relevant. 

[I feel like Pablo]

Just now, SouthbanKen said:

There is overwhelming evidence of society (read men as you agree we live in a patriarchy) not taking the sexual safety of women seriously, that is what I was alluding to when i was talking about the % of convictions. 

Whilst there may not be an overt conspiracy amongst men to downplay this issue, there is most definitely a large proportion of men who are blind to the fact that it is an issue and have done very little to change it. I do believe that this is changing, but not fast enough and those that continue to downplay it like yourself are, I am afraid to say, part of the problem. 

What you believe and the pointless percentage you attribute to it is irrelevant. If you can provide evidence to support your believe other than “my mates are good blokes so it can’t really be an issue” then it becomes relevant. 

Very well put indeed

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, I feel like Pablo said:

We need to believe the victims of assault. If you want to look up the stats of how many men kill women every week and tell me that women's feelings aren't valid then be my guest. 

You feeling something isn't an accurate representation of reality doesn't stop it being an accurate representation of reality. The stats are there to back it up. The women are there to tell you their stories. Speak to your female family members, friends, co workers. I guarantee you that they will ALL have their own stories of men behaving inappropriately towards them. 

Jesus are you incapable of reading what I have said? At no point have I cast doubt over anything anyone said. In fact I have expressed sympathy repeatedly. 

Im not saying there isn't a problem (again as I have repeatedly stated). I have acknowledged that there is and said I think the response to the problems should be more severe. 

 

IT'S ALMOST as if you're building a straw man and disregarding any opinion which differs in any slight  way from your own. 

[I feel like Pablo]

4 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

Are my feelings or opinions irrelevant here just because I feel differently or because I'm male? 

At the point you say this it is clear to me that you are not listening to us.

You are choosing to be willfully ignorant as for some reason you cannot bring yourself to believe that men, on the whole, might be the root cause of this problem.

Nobody is blaming you specifically as being an assaulter. Broadly speaking though, men ARE the perpetrators of sexual assault. 

[zero000]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

Are my feelings or opinions irrelevant here just because I feel differently or because I'm male? 

Of course not. We as men however need to recognise that our opinions on these kind of issues can only take us so far. We will never have the lived experience of women, despite how we try to empathise so it's important to acknowledge that limitation in how we perceive these issues.

[gherkin8r]

3 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

There is overwhelming evidence of society (read men as you agree we live in a patriarchy) not taking the sexual safety of women seriously, that is what I was alluding to when i was talking about the % of convictions. 

Whilst there may not be an overt conspiracy amongst men to downplay this issue, there is most definitely a large proportion of men who are blind to the fact that it is an issue and have done very little to change it. I do believe that this is changing, but not fast enough and those that continue to downplay it like yourself are, I am afraid to say, part of the problem. 

What you believe and the pointless percentage you attribute to it is irrelevant. If you can provide evidence to support your believe other than “my mates are good blokes so it can’t really be an issue” then it becomes relevant. 

Im absolutely not downplaying it and have always done anything I felt necessary to intervene when I have seen it

[I feel like Pablo]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

Jesus are you incapable of reading what I have said? At no point have I cast doubt over anything anyone said. In fact I have expressed sympathy repeatedly. 

Im not saying there isn't a problem (again as I have repeatedly stated). I have acknowledged that there is and said I think the response to the problems should be more severe. 

 

IT'S ALMOST as if you're building a straw man and disregarding any opinion which differs in any slight  way from your own. 

You said that you disagreed that men don't take the victims of sexual assault seriously. You told a person their feelings were incorrect. 

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, I feel like Pablo said:

At the point you say this it is clear to me that you are not listening to us.

You are choosing to be willfully ignorant as for some reason you cannot bring yourself to believe that men, on the whole, might be the root cause of this problem.

Nobody is blaming you specifically as being an assaulter. Broadly speaking though, men ARE the perpetrators of sexual assault. 

What you believe is irrelevant by your logivmc because you are not me

[I feel like Pablo]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

What you believe is irrelevant by your logivmc because you are not me

Ok I feel like we're losing you here buddy. 

[gherkin8r]

I demand that you understand me but you cannot understand me because of who you are

Seems to be your standpoint

Despite all of the things I have said to the contrary

[gherkin8r]

2 minutes ago, I feel like Pablo said:

You said that you disagreed that men don't take the victims of sexual assault seriously. You told a person their feelings were incorrect. 

No I didnt