Article on Girls Festival vulnerability

[dazednconfused]

2 minutes ago, Curlygirl said:

This is what upset me about my incident... glastonbury was my safe place until it happened. We shouldn’t have to be diligent. It stinks. I was always out and about on my own prior to it happening, now I won’t go out on my own. That cretin stole a piece of Glastonbury from me. 

I’ll have your back. Camp next to me. I sometimes feel literally women have to rely on women cos men don’t take us serious.

i hope 2019 will rectify that feeling. It is my favourite place on earth for those 5 days and if I ever felt like that being taken away, I would break.

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, Curlygirl said:

This is what upset me about my incident... glastonbury was my safe place until it happened. We shouldn’t have to be diligent. It stinks. I was always out and about on my own prior to it happening, now I won’t go out on my own. That cretin stole a piece of Glastonbury from me. 

I can't pretend to understand how this incident must have made you feel or how it affected you. And I am genuinely sorry for how it must have changed your feeling of safety at the festival or anywhere else for that matter. 

The point I was trying to make is that walking through the darker, more sparsely populated areas of the festival (as with anywhere else outside of the festival) should always be treated with caution as I'm sure you are now all too aware. 

Again this is not to do with playing Down the severity of the risk. More to say that although anyone might feel particularly safe at Glastonbury, in a crowd of that size there are always going to be scum bags around and the camp sites at the tail end of the night are where they are at their most dangerous. 

 

[Curlygirl]

9 minutes ago, dazednconfused said:

I’ll have your back. Camp next to me. I sometimes feel literally women have to rely on women cos men don’t take us serious.

i hope 2019 will rectify that feeling. It is my favourite place on earth for those 5 days and if I ever felt like that being taken away, I would break.

Thank you... it’s not that no one would help, it’s that they didn’t hear me to know to help. I’m certainly not cross with my campmates. The only person I was cross with was him. This happened in 2016, 2017 was still amazing and it will continue to be so, I’m just not as carefree as I used to be. Reading women’s examples, including @ICGenie pointing out tips to walk home alone, makes me cross too. No one should feel at risk. At a festival or in real life. 

Edited... I’m not cross at people giving tips ? I’m cross at the fact we have to think that way at all. 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Curlygirl

[gherkin8r]

5 minutes ago, dazednconfused said:

I’ll have your back. Camp next to me. I sometimes feel literally women have to rely on women cos men don’t take us serious.

i hope 2019 will rectify that feeling. It is my favourite place on earth for those 5 days and if I ever felt like that being taken away, I would break.

It's sad you feel that way but I think that standpoint is a misrepresentation of the reality. 

[Curlygirl]

2 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I can't pretend to understand how this incident must have made you feel or how it affected you. And I am genuinely sorry for how it must have changed your feeling of safety at the festival or anywhere else for that matter. 

The point I was trying to make is that walking through the darker, more sparsely populated areas of the festival (as with anywhere else outside of the festival) should always be treated with caution as I'm sure you are now all too aware. 

Again this is not to do with playing Down the severity of the risk. More to say that although anyone might feel particularly safe at Glastonbury, in a crowd of that size there are always going to be scum bags around and the camp sites at the tail end of the night are where they are at their most dangerous. 

 

I get what you are saying, I really do. And in real life I was always cautious. And now at festivals I am too. It’s just a shame we have to be. Most people are beautiful and amazing humans, there’s always the exception. 

[dazednconfused]

3 minutes ago, Curlygirl said:

Thank you... it’s not that no one would help, it’s that they didn’t hear me to know to help. I’m certainly not cross with my campmates. The only person I was cross with was him. This happened in 2016, 2017 was still amazing and it will continue to be so, I’m just not as carefree as I used to be. Reading women’s examples, including @ICGenie pointing out tips to walk home alone, makes me cross too. No one should feel at risk. At a festival or in real life. 

Got you. (Semi ignore my message, still take you out for cider of course!) 

I so fully agree. I really believe raising awareness is such an important step. So thank you to the starter of this. It does happen all the time everywhere. And we all are responsible to stop that.

[dazednconfused]

5 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

It's sad you feel that way but I think that standpoint is a misrepresentation of the reality. 

Is it though? Go through your own comments on this thread again. 

Defending myself in a crowd is easy, the real battle starts outside a crowd.

Totally agree with your last comment on @Curlygirl quote. My point is everyone, not just the person doing the walking, should be vigilant.

 

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, Curlygirl said:

I get what you are saying, I really do. And in real life I was always cautious. And now at festivals I am too. It’s just a shame we have to be. Most people are beautiful and amazing humans, there’s always the exception. 

Out of upvotes. 

Im also in total agreement that its a shame, more a disgrace, that we need to consider such things. 

But as you say the sense of community and togetherness can be misleading and assure people that things are different at Glastonbury. The reality is that in a crowd of 200k+ with no vetting process of attendees you will ALWAYS get a minority of pond life fucking reprobates.

My hope is that stories like yours (or the BBC article) don't cloud things or create a perception that this is a festival specific issue that might put people off attending. 

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, dazednconfused said:

Is it though? Go through your own comments on this thread again. 

Defending myself in a crowd is easy, the real battle starts outside a crowd.

Totally agree with your last comment on @Curlygirl quote. My point is everyone, not just the person doing the walking, should be vigilant.

 

I think saying that women need to stick together cos men don't take women seriously is hugely inaccurate, yes

[Curlygirl]

1 minute ago, gherkin8r said:

Out of upvotes. 

Im also in total agreement that its a shame, more a disgrace, that we need to consider such things. 

But as you say the sense of community and togetherness can be misleading and assure people that things are different at Glastonbury. The reality is that in a crowd of 200k+ with no vetting process of attendees you will ALWAYS get a minority of pond life fucking reprobates.

My hope is that stories like yours (or the BBC article) don't cloud things or create a perception that this is a festival specific issue that might put people off attending. 

I’m well aware that it is in the minority. The police told me I was one of two cases reported at that festival and both matched the same description. So one cretin out of +200,000 is brilliant actually. I don’t think this of article would put someone off going to the festival, but it may make them more aware of their surroundings. 

[dazednconfused]

5 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I think saying that women need to stick together cos men don't take women seriously is hugely inaccurate, yes

Fair does. My point was women seem to think situations more threatening earlier than men.  I also earlier made the point about men in my immediate surroundings, like my partner, being truly shocked about the way women are treated and perceive as normal.

You have no idea of how much I would love to be proven wrong.

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, Curlygirl said:

I’m well aware that it is in the minority. The police told me I was one of two cases reported at that festival and both matched the same description. So one cretin out of +200,000 is brilliant actually. I don’t think this of article would put someone off going to the festival, but it may make them more aware of their surroundings. 

I honestly hope it does make people think twice (however sad that necessity might be) about walking through the more secluded areas. I have attended with my girlfriend on 5 occasions and have probably been guilty of being too lax about letting her go back to the tent by herself on occasions given the specifics of some of the stories and the general concensus from women on here around the dangers. The advice I always gave her was to wait on a group near the edge of the campsite and walk in front or behind them as I would imagine these rats are almost exclusively lone operators. 

[SouthbanKen]

7 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I think saying that women need to stick together cos men don't take women seriously is hugely inaccurate, yes

On a wider scale I’m not sure you can back up your statement though. 

We live in a male dominated society (a patriarchy). If we then look at the statistics of sexual harassment and rape against women by men, in terms of the number that get happen vs the number that get reported vs the number that get to court vs the number that succeed in a conviction, I think it is hard to suggest that we as a society dominated by men are taking this problem that significantly adversely affects women seriously enough. 

i say all this as man. 

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, dazednconfused said:

Fair does. My point was women seem to think situations more threatening earlier than men.  I also earlier made the point about men in my immediate surroundings, like my partner, being truly shocked about the way women are treated and perceive as normal.

You have no idea of how much I would love to be proven wrong.

I understand totally what you're saying. In this instance though curlygirl actually said she was with her won friends and partner (I think) and her shouts weren't responded to. I doubt seriously that this was as a result of their disregard for her safety, more a result of their not hearing her. 

I am a man in my mid 30s and of all of my male friends and acquaintances there are none who wouldn't take women seriously or who would treat a woman in distress with anything other than the most urgent reaction possible. That's not to say there aren't c**ts about but they are truly the minority in my experience

[dazednconfused]

Out of upvotes.

All I ask of anyone in any situation, is to be attentive and emphatic.

just go and ask if someone is ok. Diffuses most situations. 

[gherkin8r]

3 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

On a wider scale I’m not sure you can back up your statement though. 

We live in a male dominated society (a patriarchy). If we then look at the statistics of sexual harassment and rape against women by men, in terms of the number that get happen vs the number that get reported vs the number that get to court vs the number that succeed in a conviction, I think it is hard to suggest that we as a society dominated by men are taking this problem that significantly adversely affects women seriously enough. 

i say all this as man. 

I don't doubt that society has been (and to a lesser extent is) dominated by men. Thats a very different thing to suggesting men don't take women or their sexual assault seriously or claiming that they won't react and therefore women need to have each others back as a result. It flies in the face of the most basic values of the festival as a whole and while there is definitely an issue with the minority of men it suggests there is a higher level conspiracy or culture among the majority of men (or even a significant proportion of glastonbury attending men) that feel this is irrelevant or a non issue. I 100% believe this to be inaccurate. 

[dentalplan]

7 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I understand totally what you're saying. In this instance though curlygirl actually said she was with her won friends and partner (I think) and her shouts weren't responded to. I doubt seriously that this was as a result of their disregard for her safety, more a result of their not hearing her. 

I am a man in my mid 30s and of all of my male friends and acquaintances there are none who wouldn't take women seriously or who would treat a woman in distress with anything other than the most urgent reaction possible. That's not to say there aren't c**ts about but they are truly the minority in my experience

My dude, I know you mean well but you keep talking about ‘your experience’ with other people who have some fairly serious experience with this stuff. If how they feel is how they feel, don’t tell them they are wrong to feel a certain way - maybe just take a backseat to the convo and lead by example?

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, dazednconfused said:

Out of upvotes.

All I ask of anyone in any situation, is to be attentive and emphatic.

just go and ask if someone is ok. Diffuses most situations. 

This thread and another this year have massively increased my awareness of the issue .... hope I never need to but im in no doubt  as to my response now 

[CaledonianGonzo]

4 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

I don't doubt that society has been (and to a lesser extent is) dominated by men. Thats a very different thing to suggesting men don't take women or their sexual assault seriously or claiming that they won't react and therefore women need to have each others back as a result. It flies in the face of the most basic values of the festival as a whole and while there is definitely an issue with the minority of men it suggests there is a higher level conspiracy or culture among the majority of men (or even a significant proportion of glastonbury attending men) that feel this is irrelevant or a non issue. I 100% believe this to be inaccurate. 

Apologies if I've got this wrong or am misrepresenting you here, but a few weeks back weren't you one of the people saying that The Sisterhood venue was sexist against men?

[H.M.V]

Just now, CaledonianGonzo said:

Apologies if I've got this wrong or am misrepresenting you here, but a few weeks back weren't you one of the people saying that The Sisterhood venue was sexist against men?

I believe you are correct along with a couple of others. 

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, dentalplan said:

My dude, I know you mean well but you keep talking about ‘your experience’ with other people who have some fairly serious experience with this stuff. If how they feel is how they feel, don’t tell them they are wrong to feel a certain way - maybe just take a backseat to the convo and lead by example?

I'm absolutely not telling them how to feel and have acknowledged I can't begin to understand that.

[I feel like Pablo]

Really sad to be having this issue mansplained to us, the victims. You don't get to tell us that men not taking us seriously isn't accurate. Actually, historically, that is COMPLETELY accurate. Women not being taken seriously when they complain about being the victim of any kind of unwanted attention is what has led to the rise of the #metoo movement. 

Women need to look out for other women. Men need to keep their friends in check. Hold each other accountable. Saying the issue is small and you're going to get some bad eggs in a bunch isn't good enough. We shouldn't have to put up with the bad eggs and expect to be unsafe ANYWHERE alone at night. 

[gherkin8r]

2 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Apologies if I've got this wrong or am misrepresenting you here, but a few weeks back weren't you one of the people saying that The Sisterhood venue was sexist against men?

I don't think I used the term sexist although Im not sure of that. My overriding point was that I felt that such an arrangement was unhelpful to the cause. A cause I am completely onside with by the way. 

Sexism is discriminating on the grounds of gender which a female only venue is by definition. 

[I feel like Pablo]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

I don't think I used the term sexist although Im not sure of that. My overriding point was that I felt that such an arrangement was unhelpful to the cause. A cause I am completely onside with by the way. 

Sexism is discriminating on the grounds of gender which a female only venue is by definition. 

To be affected by sexism is the same as to be affected by racism. Men have not been systematically oppressed by women and therefore a woman only space is not sexist. 

[gherkin8r]

3 minutes ago, I feel like Pablo said:

Really sad to be having this issue mansplained to us, the victims. You don't get to tell us that men not taking us seriously isn't accurate. Actually, historically, that is COMPLETELY accurate. Women not being taken seriously when they complain about being the victim of any kind of unwanted attention is what has led to the rise of the #metoo movement. 

Women need to look out for other women. Men need to keep their friends in check. Hold each other accountable. Saying the issue is small and you're going to get some bad eggs in a bunch isn't good enough. We shouldn't have to put up with the bad eggs and expect to be unsafe ANYWHERE alone at night. 

When you start painting women as a whole as the victims and men as a whole as the evil then you are on a slippery slope. If men aren't allowed to contribute to the conversation and are accused of "mansplaining" then its dangerous.