Emily vs. The Gammons

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 hour ago, found home in 2009 said:

Just feel like music festivals are for people that love music and pop music is for people not passionate enough about music to look past what's spoon fed to them on the radio.

Quite right mate. Couldn't of put it better myself. It's the Glastonbury Rock Festival, not the bleedin' splish-splash show.

[addicted2noise]

On 4/1/2019 at 12:10 PM, CaledonianGonzo said:

By the time you hit the big 40 it is more difficult for music that you've known for 4 days to have the same emotional wallop as music you've known for 4 decades. It's not an even playing field.  Even bands /songs that you were originally not that fussed about become more appealing as - basically- they've always been part of the furniture.

I don't know, I think I'm more of the opposite mindset. I'd rather hear something new then songs I've heard hundreds of times before by artists that have peaked 10 or 20 years ago (saying that I'm really looking forward to seeing The Cure). Also with the internet and streaming its far easier to find and listen to new music then it was in the past.  

[jyoung]

I fucking love pop music.

[DJL]

On 4/1/2019 at 12:10 PM, CaledonianGonzo said:

It's not an even playing field.  Even bands /songs that you were originally not that fussed about become more appealing as - basically- they've always been part of the furniture.

Very true... and they have an established back catalogue for you to delve into. I could easily have seen Pulp, The Divine Comedy. SFA and The Flaming Lips years ago and never bothered. The last few years at festivals they have been some of my highlights. 

I’d love to see the average age of performer by stage since Glasto started. I would guess a gradual and continual rise?

[clarkete]

5 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Quite right mate. Couldn't of put it better myself. It's the Glastonbury Rock Festival, not the bleedin' splish-splash show.

Are you teasing? It isn't a rock festival though is it. 

This is one of the first years I went, several things considered pop even back then. 

[H.M.V]

14 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Are you teasing? It isn't a rock festival though is it. 

This is one of the first years I went, several things considered pop even back then. 

Think you've missed Calgons trademark sarcasm mate. 

[clarkete]

11 minutes ago, H.M.V said:

Think you've missed Calgons trademark sarcasm mate. 

He he, I am pretty slow, even when my brain is unencumbered by recreational substances, sorry. 

[august1]

nothing wrong with pop obviously but the festivals currently looking to book more female artists seem to be a bit lazy in their approach and tend to be going for average manufactured female pop singers. I'd say its because they are getting more airplay and ready made off the shelf, its easier to stick them on the line up. Let's have it right there is loads of average white male bands who keep getting booked as well.

Whilst I applaud the sentiment by the big festivals to promote diversity, I think its putting the cart before the horse, Glastonbury can do it because it will sell regardless. The other festivals that rely on booking acts who sell tickets wont get away with it year after year.

There need to be more women on the bill in pubs and clubs lower down then onto the small/medium venues. Widen the pool in getting signed and airplay, then the festivals/industry should be picking the best from the grassroots. 

I think the pledge to get to 50% so soon will just end up with a load of repeat acts. No doubt it will help awareness and some initiative elsewhere. A local venue by me was 99% male artists, now they have a billing of women only once a month if people support it, it will work.

Good music should be promoted regardless of anything else, and the entire music industry is white male dominated place, I don't think festivals can tackle it in isolation.

Then there are loads of other issues, its not surprising women aren't playing pubs and loading the van out at midnight etc 

Definitely not put this across as well as i'd like so apologies for the offence in advance!

Edited April 2, 2019 by august1

[Keithy]

6 hours ago, found home in 2009 said:

I can't help but feel a bit irked at pop acts on the lineup. Just feel like music festivals are for people that love music and pop music is for people not passionate enough about music to look past what's spoon fed to them on the radio.

Utter nonsense, particularly the highlighted bit. It's fine to not like pop music, that's just personal tastes, but to suggest it's for people who are not passionate about music is blinkered, ignorant nonsense. 

Pop music has provided some of the greatest songs and biggest cultural moments in history. A truly great pop song is a thing of beauty.

I do feel a little sad that pop music is so USA dominated now; British pop music is (was?) a wonderful little genre, similarly to Scandinavian pop music. I hope it gets a renaissance soon. It feels like Charli XCX is fighting a lone battle on that front at the moment and anyone who's seen her Glastonbury sets will testify how well they've been recieved.

Yes there's a lot of crap, 'paint by numbers' pop music around.... but the same applies to all genres of music, even 'proper music for real music fans'. 

[jyoung]

4 minutes ago, august1 said:

nothing wrong with pop obviously but the festivals currently looking to book more female artists seem to be a bit lazy in their approach and tend to be going for average manufactured female pop singers. 

This is a lazy generalisation. Glasto line up would look far worse for wear without the likes of Miley Cyrus, Billie Eilish, Christine and The Queens, Jorja Smith and co...

[Keithy]

6 minutes ago, august1 said:

the festivals currently looking to book more female artists seem to be a bit lazy in their approach and tend to be going for average manufactured female pop singers.

Care to give examples?

The manufactured bit always makes my back tighten. I always find the implication is 'they don't write their own songs', which I never quite understand why it's deemed manufactured.

[august1]

2 minutes ago, jyoung said:

This is a lazy generalisation. Glasto line up would look far worse for wear without the likes of Miley Cyrus, Billie Eilish, Christine and The Queens, Jorja Smith and co...

Not that I have any problem with any of those artists, did any of them not have the support of radio 1 before their debut album or appear on disney since a child?

[august1]

1 minute ago, Keithy said:

Care to give examples?

The manufactured bit always makes my back tighten. I always find the implication is 'they don't write their own songs', which I never quite understand why it's deemed manufactured.

I'd say the same again, is there female act on this years poster that emerged in the last 3-4 years and wasn't supported massively by radio 1 from the off? 

Who's doing the circuit and building a base? They all seem to have taken an executives fancy along the way to be their next project.

Lizzo is 1 who defies it maybe, I seen her 4-5 years in front of a handful of people. Last year she was given support slots by Florence and Haim and now radio 1 are all over her.

[jyoung]

Just now, august1 said:

Not that I have any problem with any of those artists, did any of them not have the support of radio 1 before their debut album or appear on disney since a child?

The Billie Eilish record was produced in her bedroom by her brother. Jorja Smith moved to London and worked in Starbucks whilst cutting tracks. Christine is on an independent record label... Not that any of that matters.

[priest17]

17 minutes ago, august1 said:

 I think its putting the horse before the cart

Is that not what you're supposed to do

[august1]

7 minutes ago, priest17 said:

Is that not what you're supposed to do

not when drink has been taken

[august1]

I do think there needs to be a proper conversation about it, than just filling a quota and saying all is fine.

Asian population of the UK is about 7% yet only a handful of players have played in the premier league.

Would every club signing 2/3 players with heritage Asian to get it up to 7% in the league solve it?

Improvements needs to happen in the grassroots and work its way up, there was a survey recently that 95% of people suffer racial abuse playing the game in this country, a lack of role models, less opportunities etc those are issues that need addressing first and I think similar applies to women in music conversation.

[clarkete]

7 minutes ago, august1 said:

not when drink has been taken

Is that what you've been up to?

I find it sweet that you've been lazy about your accusation that the festival was lazy  

[Keithy]

23 minutes ago, august1 said:

I'd say the same again, is there female act on this years poster that emerged in the last 3-4 years and wasn't supported massively by radio 1 from the off? 

Who's doing the circuit and building a base? They all seem to have taken an executives fancy along the way to be their next project.

Lizzo is 1 who defies it maybe, I seen her 4-5 years in front of a handful of people. Last year she was given support slots by Florence and Haim and now radio 1 are all over her.

Billie Eilish. Broke through in the internet and has been on the cusp for the last 12 months. Radio 1 are late to the game with her.

Sigrid. Another one born on the internet, did the small festivals like The Great Escape and Dot to Dot. Ditto for Anne-Marie

Going back to previous years. Dua Lipa - was doing the small festival circuits before she broke through on Radio 1. Me and @H.M.Vsaw her at Dot to Dot Bristol back in 2015. She's earnt her stripes.

Charli XCX. Radio 1 didn't pick her up until Fancy and Boom Clap. First saw her supporting Sleigh Bells at the beginning of this decade. She's built a base. In fact her debut album sadly never broke through to the main stream. I'll defend it to my dying day but True Romance is one of the finest 'lost' albums. A masterpiece in gothic influenced pop. She was due to support Grimes at Bristol Motion when Grimes had Visions out in 2012. Grimes cancelled and it felt like a real sliding doors moment for Charli XCX.... that tour could have kicked her off back then.

Christine is another one I'd argue Radio 1 have been late to the party with. In fact I'd argue strongly that Radio 1 have been late to the party with quite a lot rather than supported from the off.

As for Miley and Disney. I'd suggest that Miley actually kicked back against the platform she got. She could have taken the easy route and just stuck with Hannah Montana. Yes that gave her a profile but I'd argue that her pop career since then (and the dead prez stuff) has been counter to that profile. It could easily have gone pear shaped like it has for many a pop star.

The 'executives fancy' is hugely disrespectful. Nearly all of these artists have grafted, toured extensively. They breakthrough on Radio 1 precisely because they've built a fanbase.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Keithy

[Keithy]

42 minutes ago, august1 said:

There need to be more women on the bill in pubs and clubs lower down then onto the small/medium venues. Widen the pool in getting signed and airplay, then the festivals/industry should be picking the best from the grassroots. 

They're already there. So far this year I've seen or will be seeing before June (at Southampton Joiners or Bristol Thekla) -  Self Esteem, Black Honey, Stand Atlantic, Anteros, Stella Donnelly, Honeyblood. Female artists or female fronted bands. There are loads of female artists/bands out there.

The issue is are they getting a fair crack at breaking through?. I'd bet that if Honeyblood or Black Honey were all bloke bands, they'd have much higher profile and success then they currently have. 

[OG]

Kylie is the epitome of manufactured pop, Stock Aitkin Waterman were the masters of it in the 80s. She will still draw one of the biggest crowds of the weekend

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I fucking love Kylie

[CaledonianGonzo]

7 hours ago, august1 said:

I think the pledge to get to 50% so soon will just end up with a load of repeat acts.

Got some bad news for you about the current line up, and it's not that Miley Cyrus has been booked two years in a row.

[hfuhruhurr]

Highlighting the gender balance thing is fab and doing something about it has to be welcomed.

On the assumption that music is a business and that we have a few factors, like "marketability" or some such, then where do we fit in, the punters? There's the chicken and egg issue - music industry puts forward a male bias because the punters have more of a preference for male bands, or is that we prefer male bands because that's all we're fed? Methinks the industry is old enough now and channels and measurement good enough that I'm thinking the root cause is us - we prefer male bands, so we're getting more of what we like.

Be interested to hear from anyone in the industry to learn more.

[Quark]

7 hours ago, Keithy said:

They're already there. So far this year I've seen or will be seeing before June (at Southampton Joiners or Bristol Thekla) -  Self Esteem, Black Honey, Stand Atlantic, Anteros, Stella Donnelly, Honeyblood. Female artists or female fronted bands. There are loads of female artists/bands out there.

The issue is are they getting a fair crack at breaking through?. I'd bet that if Honeyblood or Black Honey were all bloke bands, they'd have much higher profile and success then they currently have. 

Not enough love for Honeyblood. Good shout Keithy

[DJL]

47 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

Highlighting the gender balance thing is fab and doing something about it has to be welcomed.

On the assumption that music is a business and that we have a few factors, like "marketability" or some such, then where do we fit in, the punters? There's the chicken and egg issue - music industry puts forward a male bias because the punters have more of a preference for male bands, or is that we prefer male bands because that's all we're fed? Methinks the industry is old enough now and channels and measurement good enough that I'm thinking the root cause is us - we prefer male bands, so we're getting more of what we like.

Be interested to hear from anyone in the industry to learn more.

I think there is an element of that. The music industry will always produce what has sold before but that does evolve according to tastes. Towards the end of the 90s and the late 00s there were a lot of mediocre rehashes of previous indie rock bands, those scenes died and people/the industry moved on.

The gender debates, though they can get ugly, are a good thing which will hopefully get record companies and festivals thinking a little.

What we would need now is for the BBC to give fair coverage to female acts on the line-up so that they have an opportunity to make the ‘moments’ of the festival. That may be a Janet or Kylie but hopefully it may be something more up and coming/sustainable.

Early on Radiohead, Pulp, Florence, Stormzy all established themselves at Glastonbury to some degree. I’d love to see the likes of Christine, Sigrid, Billy Eilish, Janelle Monae, Miley, Lizzo, Honeyblood (great shout) etc nail it/do that this year and solve Emily’s problem of future top line (female) acts. I think the line-up is well placed to do that.

Edited April 3, 2019 by DJL