Football 17/18

[pink_triangle]

10 minutes ago, The Nal said:

The only thing Wenger and Fergie have in common is the time they spent at their clubs. 3 leagues in 22 years is a shite return from Wenger. 

He didnt have the biggest budget in any of those 22 years. Many he was down to 3rd or 4th. Many of the years Fergie won titles he was the biggest spender. 

[eFestivals]

30 minutes ago, The Nal said:

The only thing Wenger and Fergie have in common is the time they spent at their clubs. 3 leagues in 22 years is a shite return from Wenger. 

oh, c'mon ... fergie had a bottomless pit of resources, while Wenger paid off a new stadium.

Wenger may or may not have under-performed, but he had a far bigger task than fergie.

[The Nal]

12 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

He didnt have the biggest budget in any of those 22 years. Many he was down to 3rd or 4th. Many of the years Fergie won titles he was the biggest spender. 

He had enough where he should've done more. He inherited a team with Bergkamp, Viera, Anelka, Adams, Wright, Dixon, Platt, Keown, Seaman. A great team. He won two leagues with the guts of that team. Look at the state of the club now. 

Outspending doesn't guarantee success anyway. 

Not saying he hasn't done well given how little hes spent but comparing to a someone like Ferguson is madness. 

[thetime]

14 minutes ago, The Nal said:

He had enough where he should've done more. He inherited a team with Bergkamp, Viera, Anelka, Adams, Wright, Dixon, Platt, Keown, Seaman. A great team. 

He wouldn’t of taken over in the first place if they were a great team, they were a team of let’s say heavy drinkers and led them in the right way,  

The Arsenal team we’re going nowhere at that time, littered with mid table finishes and not a sniff of a title since 91.

i don’t think trophy hauls is the correct way to judge and compare managers.

Edited March 5, 2018 by thetime

[mjsell]

I would also like to point out that since Wenger has started spending a bit more money in recent seasons the team has only gone backwards. I'm not convinced he is that good at managing those bigger egos - and is/was more comfortable when having to make do with majority kids. 

As has been said, he won two titles thanks in large part to the defence he inherited. In my opinion the only great defensive signings he has made in his time at Arsenal are Campbell, Gilberto Silva and Kolo Toure. With Lehman, Lauren and probably Koscielny making the 'good' category. His hit rate with defenders is truly woeful.

Edited March 5, 2018 by mjsell

[pink_triangle]

36 minutes ago, The Nal said:

 

Outspending doesn't guarantee success anyway. 

 

If Fergie hadnt had the top budget for all those years when the premiership started he wouldnt have won as many league titles.  Look throughout Europe and you see pretty much every league is won by the top or 2nd biggest budget in the league. To me when Arsenal change manager a realistic expectation is champions league qualification, although I wouldnt expect them to do this every season.  Of course its dependent on what happens at other clubs as well, for example how would Spurs coped if the manager and top players lefr. 

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

for example how would Spurs coped if the manager and top players lefr. 

i reckon we'll get to find out within 18 months.

[Wooderson]

[Wooderson]

Chippy Tits doing such a good job.

[The Nal]

31 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

If Fergie hadnt had the top budget for all those years when the premiership started he wouldnt have won as many league titles. 

Thats not true for the early years of success. A couple of pricey players in there signed over the course of a few years sure, Hughes, Pallister. But the rest were snips/free - Cantona, Schmeichel, Bruce, Irwin, Giggs, Lee Sharpe etc. Utd weren't spending as much as Arsenal, Liverpool, Blackburn, Leeds or even Villa at the time.

14 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Chippy Tits doing such a good job.

Just dreadful. He was brought in to make sure they stayed up, which hes done. Decent first round of results and then, well, Sam happened. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by The Nal

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Thats not true for the early years of success. A couple of pricey players in there signed over the course of a few years sure, Hughes, Pallister. But the rest were snips/free - Cantona, Schmeichel, Bruce, Irwin, Giggs, Lee Sharpe etc. 

Free transfers are not free. QPR hardly spent anything on transfer fees in their last season in the league. My guess is that Man Utd have been top 3 wage budget every season in the premiership.

[The Nal]

17 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Free transfers are not free. QPR hardly spent anything on transfer fees in their last season in the league. My guess is that Man Utd have been top 3 wage budget every season in the premiership.

Indeed. Leicester and Blackburn aside (Blackburn had the 4th highest wage bill), one of the top three paying clubs always wins the Premier League. For the last 20 years anyway.

Edited March 5, 2018 by The Nal

[zahidf]

Well done Jose!

 

[zahidf]

Classy

 

[ThomThomDrum]

Anyone else remember the days when Fiorentina were a different sort of "classy" getting their players to wear jerseys with swastikas on them? 

 

[Comfy Bean]

6 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

If Fergie hadnt had the top budget for all those years when the premiership started he wouldnt have won as many league titles.  Look throughout Europe and you see pretty much every league is won by the top or 2nd biggest budget in the league. 

If you look away from the EPL for a moment you`ll see that Ferguson managed to win league titles and cup competitions in Scotland and Europe without having the biggest budget.

I know that budget to medals is always a thing of interest to you so thought worth pointing out. You can guess how many league titles have been won by anyone outwith the old firm since Ferguson left Aberdeen.

Your right to point out the norm being one of the top 2 budgets win the leagues.

 

[Comfy Bean]

I`m far from a Ferguson fan boy but he clearly had something as a manager of football players beyond just having the biggest budget. Maybe something within his reaction here on beating Rangers at Hampden to win the Scottish Cup. Quite funny if you haven`t seen it. Came to mind when I saw that clip of Wengers players strolling towards the ball when only one down to City yesterday " standards " !?

 

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Comfy Bean

[pink_triangle]

42 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

If you look away from the EPL for a moment you`ll see that Ferguson managed to win league titles and cup competitions in Scotland and Europe without having the biggest budget.

I know that budget to medals is always a thing of interest to you so thought worth pointing out. You can guess how many league titles have been won by anyone outwith the old firm since Ferguson left Aberdeen.

Your right to point out the norm being one of the top 2 budgets win the leagues.

 

That was a time when a club could win division 2 (now championship) and then challenge for division 1 (now premiership) the next season. I would maintain football had changed by the time he was winning trophies in England. 

Thats not to say he didn't achieve, but an acknowledgement he paid more for his achievements than Wenger.

[Comfy Bean]

53 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

That was a time when a club could win division 2 (now championship) and then challenge for division 1 (now premiership) the next season. I would maintain football had changed by the time he was winning trophies in England. 

Thats not to say he didn't achieve, but an acknowledgement he paid more for his achievements than Wenger.

Indeed. 

I was just pointing out some of his achievements away from the epl that go against what you were saying about the budget to trophy thing. 

Perhaps another way of looking at it....do you think Wenger would have been as successful with those Aberdeen or Manc teams ?

As I mentioned earlier, No one has beat the old firm up here over a season since he did it 3 times 30 odd years ago.

I think Wenger was a fantastic manager. He had Arsenal playing some brilliant stuff. I think the trophy count between he and Ferguson speaks for itself though.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, Comfy Bean said:

Indeed. 

I was just pointing out some of his achievements away from the epl that go against what you were saying about the budget to trophy thing. 

 

As I said I think money is more of a factor now than it was then. Both managers had success before they won trophies in England.

 

1 hour ago, Comfy Bean said:

 

Perhaps another way of looking at it....do you think Wenger would have been as successful with those Aberdeen or Manc teams ?

I think a lot of his early success was down to innovation around coaching, nutrition etc. So if he had gone to Aberdeen and offered the players these advantages he probably could have been as successful. Then again I’m not sure how requests to cut down the deep fried mars bars would have gone down in the 80s!

I doubt he would have won more trophies than Fergie at Man U, but I think he would have adapted better to managing a top (non British) European side.

[pink_triangle]

10 hours ago, The Nal said:

 

Just dreadful. He was brought in to make sure they stayed up, which hes done. Decent first round of results and then, well, Sam happened. 

They would have stayed up if they had given it to Unsworth.

[Comfy Bean]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think a lot of his early success was down to innovation around coaching, nutrition etc. So if he had gone to Aberdeen and offered the players these advantages he probably could have been as successful. 

Ok thanks.

[The Nal]

Actually felt sorry for Woy last night. They would've finished in 13th place if they won. Don't deserve to go down. 

[mjsell]

The first time a mourinho PL side has won a game from a 2 goal deficit. 

 

[jyoung]

Watched Matic volley that last minute winner last night :-(