This morning...

[arcade fireman]

The polls weren't that skewed. The national polls were within the margin of error, and Clinton narrowly won the popular vote. The statewide polls were more variable however those polls were always of variable quality. 

[russycarps]

7 minutes ago, H.M.V said:

Not sure its entirely relevant but was in New York just days ago and the media was just so fucking Trump heavy it was ridiculous. Throw in the FBI reopening the email investigation debacle. I mean that had to have some bearing on states where Hillary had a two digit lead just a week before. Its a fucked up system and I can't say I understand it. Not one little bit. I'm still in shock truth be told. 

I did speak to a Clinton campaigner whilst in New York and he basically said that Americans are stupid but even more so they are more misogynistic than racist and they are pretty fucking racist and they will never vote for a woman. He was right. He was also from London. 

 

That's a bit unfair considering more people voted for Hillary than they did for trump

[H.M.V]

Just now, russycarps said:

That's a bit unfair considering more people voted for Hillary than they did for trump

More women, hispanics, young people etc etc voted for Hillary but what about the white vote? And you know whats not fair, the fact that you can have the popular vote in a country as multicultural as America and still fucking lose. 

[Cornelius_Fudge]

Polls are impossible to trust based on the huge amount of variables involved. Where were the polls done? Which neighbourhoods, what time of day, the ethnicity of the area, were the people lying, did the people who answered 'I don't want to say' really just use that as an answer for Trump. They're notoriously difficult to trust.

It's terribly unfair to label all of Trumps supporters as simply dumb or stupid - and doing so perpetuates the polarization. Some people would have voted for Clinton just because she's a woman. That is ludicrous in the 21st century - just as ludicrous as anyone who would vote for Trump because he's a man. Outrageous behaviour.

[arcade fireman]

6 minutes ago, Cornelius_Fudge said:

 Some people would have voted for Clinton just because she's a woman. That is ludicrous in the 21st century - just as ludicrous as anyone who would vote for Trump because he's a man. Outrageous behaviour.

Voting for someone just because they're a woman is ludicrous. Voting for a woman against a candidate who has made numerous mysogynistic comments and possibly even worse - less so. 

Edited November 9, 2016 by arcade fireman

[Cornelius_Fudge]

Just now, H.M.V said:

More women, hispanics, young people etc etc voted for Hillary but what about the white vote? And you know whats not fair, the fact that you can have the popular vote in a country as multicultural as America and still fucking lose. 

The white vote overwhelmingly voted for Trump and at the end of the day, it's no big surprise. He spoke to them directly and honestly. From those who class themselves as white - 77 percent - then you would say that the majority of whites voted for the majority demographic and the person who was going to stand up for them the most.

But I agree about the system. How can Clinton win the popular vote but still not win? It needs a tweak

[Cornelius_Fudge]

2 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

Voting for someone just because they're a woman is ludicrous. Voting for a woman against a candidate who has made numerous mysogynistic comments and possibly even worse - less so. 

Yes of course, if Hillary was innocent then this would make sense. But voting for a woman with corruption hanging over her, voting for a woman whose inaction culminated in the death of soldiers, or voting for a woman who lied under oath is also terrible.

 

[arcade fireman]

8 minutes ago, Cornelius_Fudge said:

Yes of course, if Hillary was innocent then this would make sense. But voting for a woman with corruption hanging over her, voting for a woman whose inaction culminated in the death of soldiers, or voting for a woman who lied under oath is also terrible.

 

Sorry, but this false equivalence of Trump and Clinton - as if they are both equally as bad as each other is one of the worst things about this campaign. I could talk and talk about the things that are wrong with Hillary. She made mistakes over Benghazi but I wouldn't say this means she shouldn't be President - even the Republicans stopped talking about this as the campaign went on. 

Trump? He bragged on camera about grabbing women "by the pussy" and walking in on them when they were changing - which were both later corroborated by women coming forward. He declared a ban on all Muslims coming in. He mocked a disabled reporter. He repeatedly lied and lied - Hillary told some lies - sure she's a stock standard politician - but nowhere near to the degree that Trump did. He repeatedly refused to declare his income taxes and likely didn't pay any for decades. I mean I could go on and on. 

Hillary was a poor candidate. But this false equivalence nonsense gives legitimacy to genuine racism and misogyny that has come from Trump and his supporters. 

Edited November 9, 2016 by arcade fireman

[alibear]

2 hours ago, russycarps said:

Usually a month before you get a doctor's appointment here in Lewisham.  Other option is to queue at the door from 7am and hope to get one of the emergency daily appointments 

Really? My new doctor is in Lewisham too and I called last Thursday and got an appointment the following Tuesday morning. I was astounded!

[H.M.V]

Fuck it, I blame the Kardashians. 

[russycarps]

7 minutes ago, alibear said:

Really? My new doctor is in Lewisham too and I called last Thursday and got an appointment the following Tuesday morning. I was astounded!

What part of Lewisham are you in? Don't say Blackheath!

[alibear]

1 minute ago, russycarps said:

What part of Lewisham are you in? Don't say Blackheath!

Erm.... ;-) I actually live in the Greenwich Borough (Lee Green) but fall under the catchment area of my GP surgery, which is near Blackheath. Don't hate me!

[Hugh Jass]

15 minutes ago, russycarps said:

What part of Lewisham are you in? Don't say Blackheath!

What's wrong with Blackheath eh? 

[alibear]

1 minute ago, Hugh Jass said:

What's wrong with Blackheath eh? 

You tell him! There can't be many other places which have free fireworks on bonfire night!

Edited November 9, 2016 by alibear

[russycarps]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

What's wrong with Blackheath eh? 

Well I doubt you poshos have to wait for a doctor's app. I expect they come to you!

[Mouseboy11]

As much as there seems to be a lot of people throwing out the racist, misogynist American shouts..the DNC are equally to blame for me for picking a weak, poisonous candidate because they felt it was 'her time'. If they hadn't essentially rigged the candidate elections they may not of distanced so many voters.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Mouseboy11

[CHRLY]

Big up Charlton

[Bisque]

Oh well. Crack on with the daily

[tevaburger]

pretty shocking night, early morning and day here in the USA being dealt with through a constant dose of alcohol. I must say I don't know of many Trump voters in my parts...probably 'secretly' out there though...

kudos to Glasto 2017 'special guest' Lady Gaga who was out protesting at Trump Tower early Wednesday morning.

top 3 reads of the day in case you're interested and didn't come across these...

1) Roger Cohen (NY Times) http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/opinion/president-donald-trump.html

2) David Remnick "An American Tragedy" http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-american-tragedy-donald-trump

3) Garrison Keilor "Trump Supporters Will Not Like What Happens Next" in the Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-voters-will-not-like-what-happens-next/2016/11/09/e346ffc2-a67f-11e6-8fc0-7be8f848c492_story.html

9) and....um...  very quick Pablo Honey album review from Rolling Stone - http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/pablo-honey-19931223

[somecoolusername]

Well the major revelation from this thread is that half of efests lives in Lewisham. I'm actually from there so plus 1 for me. Or should that be minus?

5 hours ago, H.M.V said:

More women, hispanics, young people etc etc voted for Hillary but what about the white vote? And you know whats not fair, the fact that you can have the popular vote in a country as multicultural as America and still fucking lose. 

You can win the popular vote in the UK and lose. Both are fucked systems 

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, dizzymoo said:

people genuinely thought they were voting for £350 million to be diverted direct from the EU to the NHS.

Did they? Oh has this just become an easy stick to beat them with, another version of 'stupid'?

You and me knew what the lies were. Might it be the case that other people did too, but their opinion was on the other side to yours?

(just to be clear, I don't doubt there were some morons on both sides who swallowed some bullshit, but the mass-stupid angle is a difficult one to make stand up).

 

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, eastynh said:

What is worse? Thick people with nothing to lose voting democratically, or the intelligent amongst us failing to get the message across in a manner that the thick people could understand and comprehend?

Nicely put, but you've stopped short of the obvious final line: If the 'smart' people aren't smart enough to give a message the 'stupid' people will buy, how smart are those 'smart' people really?

People can regard the electorate as stupid if they want to but it's the only electorate there is, and if the stupid can't be won over by the intelligent then 'the intelligent' aren't really that intelligent after all.

[Cornelius_Fudge]

9 hours ago, arcade fireman said:

Sorry, but this false equivalence of Trump and Clinton - as if they are both equally as bad as each other is one of the worst things about this campaign. I could talk and talk about the things that are wrong with Hillary. She made mistakes over Benghazi but I wouldn't say this means she shouldn't be President - even the Republicans stopped talking about this as the campaign went on. 

Trump? He bragged on camera about grabbing women "by the pussy" and walking in on them when they were changing - which were both later corroborated by women coming forward. He declared a ban on all Muslims coming in. He mocked a disabled reporter. He repeatedly lied and lied - Hillary told some lies - sure she's a stock standard politician - but nowhere near to the degree that Trump did. He repeatedly refused to declare his income taxes and likely didn't pay any for decades. I mean I could go on and on. 

Hillary was a poor candidate. But this false equivalence nonsense gives legitimacy to genuine racism and misogyny that has come from Trump and his supporters. 

It's really not a false equivalence if you're using it to determine a persons character.

Trump isn't very PC and he said a low of foolish things without thinking, but you should be able to detect his sentiment without being blinded by his 'bad words'.

Yeah, he bragged on a microphone about being lecherous - okay. I didn't realise it's a crime to brag now too. It's questionable behaviour but you have no idea if it's true, or what situation he was talking about. The same as walking in on women - there are just as many claims (and a claim is just a claim, not anywhere near factual remember) that he is a hero for women.

Personally I didn't like either and I am happy I didn't have to make a decision as I'm not American, but if you have to make important decisions you need to look past bravado and claims and look at the facts.

Did the Clinton's accept questionable donations from foreign countries? Yes. Is there evidence that she's had a chance at trying her hand as master in chief and fail? Yes. Would she further a foreign policy, including drones strikes? It looked likely.

Did Trump touch some women inappropriately? We don't know. Did he use bad language? Yes.

But then you have to ask which is worse. Being non-PC/being a jerk or knowingly being corrupt/ready for war. There's your false equivalence.

[arcade fireman]

4 hours ago, somecoolusername said:

You can win the popular vote in the UK and lose. Both are fucked systems 

Our system has at least some rhyme and reason. Our PM and Government is based purely on who has a majority of MPs in Parliament. 

Whereas the US have downticket races to elect their representatives and that can result in either a President being blocked at every turn (like Obama) or having absolute power (like Trump). And given the President elected has absolutely no relation to those elected representatives then there is absolutely no reason to have the electoral college. 

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, bamber said:

Let me reiterate this.

The majority of the American Electorate just voted in a President who bragged about groping women. Read that back again. Then try and argue with me that vast swathes of humanity are not thick as shit.

Was groping women why they voted for him, or did they vote for him for reasons different to that?

What's thick as pig shit is an opinion that decides their thinking for them on a false basis.