Taking kids out of school...

[chrismac1986]

Hmmm, not sure if I agree with the term selfish. Its fair to say that the vast vast majority of parents want to give their children the absolute most they possibly can to ensure they have the most well rounded and enriched life. I think calling that selfishness is a little unfair.

with regards to pumping more money in to it, I don't see why that should be the case if I'm honest, not in the modern world. Other state sector employees don't get half financial rewards some teachers get, and certainly don't get the holiday entitlement. Nurses being a great example. Why in a world where every tax penny counts are we not getting full value from the teaching industry. For me its an outdated sense of entitlement.

 

with regards to the wider impact, I understand your point. That said, people can and will catch up. I am the only person in my work who does my job, and during my holidays, the work doesn't stop coming in. However my employer knows ill get straight and they will benefit from me being refreshed and reengaged.

we all know sometimes kids get disengaged with studies, or they certainly did when I was at school, and there's plenty of studies out there showing the value of family time, holidays and god knows what else. If I were a teacher, id much rather little jimmy take a break with his family that his parents have grafted for and have him happy, fulfilled and engaged in life.

with that, I guess it can also teach kids values displayed by their parents by working hard, saving towards something and getting the reward of, for example a holiday.

I must make it clear that I do agree that good attendance is really import and, and that kids are on course for good grades. But really if a kid has say, 95%+ attendance, and are successful in their studies (a potential indicator of good parenting), then it is punitive to prevent them from having 1 week off a year.

finally, surely this punitive law only breeds the negative value of dishonesty in encouraging parents and children to fake illness for example?

I just think sensibility need be applied

[acidstorm523]

Hmmm, not sure if I agree with the term selfish. Its fair to say that the vast vast majority of parents want to give their children the absolute most they possibly can to ensure they have the most well rounded and enriched life. I think calling that selfishness is a little unfair.

with regards to pumping more money in to it, I don't see why that should be the case if I'm honest, not in the modern world. Other state sector employees don't get half financial rewards some teachers get, and certainly don't get the holiday entitlement. Nurses being a great example. Why in a world where every tax penny counts are we not getting full value from the teaching industry. For me its an outdated sense of entitlement.

 

with regards to the wider impact, I understand your point. That said, people can and will catch up. I am the only person in my work who does my job, and during my holidays, the work doesn't stop coming in. However my employer knows ill get straight and they will benefit from me being refreshed and reengaged.

we all know sometimes kids get disengaged with studies, or they certainly did when I was at school, and there's plenty of studies out there showing the value of family time, holidays and god knows what else. If I were a teacher, id much rather little jimmy take a break with his family that his parents have grafted for and have him happy, fulfilled and engaged in life.

with that, I guess it can also teach kids values displayed by their parents by working hard, saving towards something and getting the reward of, for example a holiday.

I must make it clear that I do agree that good attendance is really import and, and that kids are on course for good grades. But really if a kid has say, 95%+ attendance, and are successful in their studies (a potential indicator of good parenting), then it is punitive to prevent them from having 1 week off a year.

finally, surely this punitive law only breeds the negative value of dishonesty in encouraging parents and children to fake illness for example?

I just think sensibility need be applied

i totally agree.

And I think the accusation of selfishness by Deanol is starting to grate. Perhaps I could also say, as the devil's advocate, that it would be selfish of teachers to disallow children different experiences in life, just so that they are never inconvenienced in any way. But I don't think most teachers have that attitude -  all the teachers I have ever spoken with have thought that the law is somewhat an ass on this.  We all have extra bits and pieces to incorporate into our work. 

I am struck by how particularly responsible and thoughtful the parents are who are on this thread. The decision to take kids out of school has not been taken lightly. 

[Gnomicide]

This could make things a little easier....

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/13/high-court-father-fine-term-time-holiday-jon-platt

[mungo57]

41 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

This could make things a little easier....

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/13/high-court-father-fine-term-time-holiday-jon-platt

can't believe this guy has had to wait 2 years and spend £25000 on legal fees for a common sense ruling like this. It's ridiculous how much holidays can cost out of school time so I fully agree with him, and I don't even HAVE kids.

[Sawdusty surfer]

Fantastic common sense decision. Both my now grown up children have been to literally every Glastonbury since they were born.  Absolutely sure that it has been  an education for them and helped their general development as well rounded adults. 

[danbailey80]

1 hour ago, Gnomicide said:

This could make things a little easier....

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/13/high-court-father-fine-term-time-holiday-jon-platt

I think he's a twat. He should be spending more time with his children not in court. He effectively taking money from school's pockets to prove a point. 

I'm a state school primary school teacher of 6 years so to clear a few things up. As well as wasting money, a reason the government brought this in is not to annoy middle-class parents but to target children whom are vulnerable due to missing huge amounts of school due to neglect. As you can't have a system to allow some children to miss some days due to a nice holiday/ festival they have to be consistent with all parents. Heads too have to be consistent.

Do I agree with how strict they have been? Absolutely not, they should have come up with a more positive system to award schools/ parents/ children with good attendance, but i think it's important to understand why they have done this.

I do think you should take children out of school for something like Glastonbury, the experience is hugely educational for any age group.

Edited May 13, 2016 by danbailey80

[incident]

2 hours ago, danbailey80 said:

As you can't have a system to allow some children to miss some days due to a nice holiday/ festival they have to be consistent with all parents. Heads too have to be consistent.

Do I agree with how strict they have been? Absolutely not, they should have come up with a more positive system to award schools/ parents/ children with good attendance, but i think it's important to understand why they have done this.

Regardless of how strict it is - do you honestly think the system as currently implemented could in any way be described as being consistent?

[Keithy]

If I had kids, I wouldn't hesitate taking them out of school to attend Glastonbury. What they would experience there as a child is something that school teaching could never match. It genuinely makes my cold heart ache when I walk past the kids field that I don't have my own kids. 

[EasyUserName]

15 minutes ago, Keithy said:

If I had kids, I wouldn't hesitate taking them out of school to attend Glastonbury. What they would experience there as a child is something that school teaching could never match. It genuinely makes my cold heart ache when I walk past the kids field that I don't have my own kids. 

Spend 5 min with mine, you'll soon want a pint.

 

Saying that, I agree - mine loved the various people dressed as things by Gate C (the Gorilla was a fav.)

[EasyUserName]

2 hours ago, danbailey80 said:

I think he's a twat. He should be spending more time with his children not in court. He effectively taking money from school's pockets to prove a point. 

I'm a state school primary school teacher of 6 years so to clear a few things up. As well as wasting money, a reason the government brought this in is not to annoy middle-class parents but to target children whom are vulnerable due to missing huge amounts of school due to neglect. As you can't have a system to allow some children to miss some days due to a nice holiday/ festival they have to be consistent with all parents. Heads too have to be consistent.

Do I agree with how strict they have been? Absolutely not, they should have come up with a more positive system to award schools/ parents/ children with good attendance, but i think it's important to understand why they have done this.

I do think you should take children out of school for something like Glastonbury, the experience is hugely educational for any age group.

Isnt there already a system in place for neglected children though?  A safeguarding concern passed to social services, job done.  I would have thought that the sort of children you refer to would already be on socials radar so to speak.  I stand to be corrected, but I would have thought they'd not be refered for fines as social was involved, or else you'd see many more parents going to jail for non-fine payment. 

[danbailey80]

28 minutes ago, incident said:

Regardless of how strict it is - do you honestly think the system as currently implemented could in any way be described as being consistent?

No. Its Total Rubbish. Just giving some Background

[Cheesey]

31 minutes ago, Keithy said:

It genuinely makes my cold heart ache when I walk past the kids field that I don't have my own kids. 

Have a wonder through there with a hangover and you might change your mind

Seriously though, I take my small kids every year. And it's brilliant.

We don't lie to their school. We fill in a form requesting term time holiday, but it always gets rejected. However, we don't get fined because our LEA only issues fines for absences longer than five days.

[hurdy]

58 minutes ago, Cheesey said:

We don't lie to their school. We fill in a form requesting term time holiday, but it always gets rejected. However, we don't get fined because our LEA only issues fines for absences longer than five days.

Which is how it should be. The legislation was brought in under the auspices of preventing persistent truancy and subsequent anti social behaviour. The government decision to use it for all absences was not what it was intended for - hence the word 'regular' appearing in the wording. 

[Woffy]

3 hours ago, danbailey80 said:

I think he's a twat. He should be spending more time with his children not in court. He effectively taking money from school's pockets to prove a point. 

I'm a state school primary school teacher of 6 years so to clear a few things up. As well as wasting money, a reason the government brought this in is not to annoy middle-class parents but to target children whom are vulnerable due to missing huge amounts of school due to neglect. As you can't have a system to allow some children to miss some days due to a nice holiday/ festival they have to be consistent with all parents. Heads too have to be consistent.

Do I agree with how strict they have been? Absolutely not, they should have come up with a more positive system to award schools/ parents/ children with good attendance, but i think it's important to understand why they have done this.

I do think you should take children out of school for something like Glastonbury, the experience is hugely educational for any age group.

This is all well and good said and written down - as non-resident, but care-sharing parent - my ex has consistently failed to get my kids to school more than 75% to 80% of the time for 3 consecutive years. 

Whilst neglectful, she's savvy enough not to let them miss 10 sessions in every 100 (now the prnalty notice has been brought in.

I've been at the school dozens of times and written 100s of letters, inc. to the Governors and MP. None of whom are more interested than platitudes and getting me to go away with naff assurances.

Instead they've got Social Services, Transform and the Early Help Hub involved who have effectively acted as her legal representative and provided ready made excuses for her and put on hold the goverment penalty notice on hold. Despite identifying hunger issues and dental health neglect.

 

Oh. And amongst other things, her main reason for not getting them to school is having been banned from driving twice and having 3 cars crushed thus far for non-payment of Tax, MOT AND insurance. But she manages to walk to the £1.5k a year health and 'raquets' club she's a member of paid with her unemployment benefits.

So in my experience, the school - and anti-social dysfunctional services - can swivel.

[GlastoAwe]

57 minutes ago, Woffy said:

This is all well and good said and written down - as non-resident, but care-sharing parent - my ex has consistently failed to get my kids to school more than 75% to 80% of the time for 3 consecutive years. 

Whilst neglectful, she's savvy enough not to let them miss 10 sessions in every 100 (now the prnalty notice has been brought in.

I've been at the school dozens of times and written 100s of letters, inc. to the Governors and MP. None of whom are more interested than platitudes and getting me to go away with naff assurances.

Instead they've got Social Services, Transform and the Early Help Hub involved who have effectively acted as her legal representative and provided ready made excuses for her and put on hold the goverment penalty notice on hold. Despite identifying hunger issues and dental health neglect.

 

Oh. And amongst other things, her main reason for not getting them to school is having been banned from driving twice and having 3 cars crushed thus far for non-payment of Tax, MOT AND insurance. But she manages to walk to the £1.5k a year health and 'raquets' club she's a member of paid with her unemployment benefits.

So in my experience, the school - and anti-social dysfunctional services - can swivel.

Woffy that situation sucks and although I'm not completely surprised given the pressure most children's services departments are under, I can't believe the number of indicators of concern that you mention are not prompting some kind of serious action. On the plus side the fact that you sound like a switched on and grounded care-sharing parent is making their situation infinitely better.

I don't agree with the fining system and feel that in many cases the causes for concern (in theory the reason behind the current system) go unchallenged. I expect to receive fines in the future once my daughter starts school but I agree with all the above comments that the experience and learning that comes from festivals like Glastonbury is beyond anything that can be taught at school. I found that when I attended for the first time aged 21, I hope my children will get all those experiences in childhood. 

On a related note, the Bearded Theory school seems fabulous! I'm so enrolling my monkey there next year! 

[MilkyJoe]

In 2013 we decided to take our 3 kids to Glastonbury as it was really the only year we would be able to all go together with exam commitments coming up. We got tickets in the main sale for ourselves and the eldest, the two youngest were under 12, and we applied to the schools well in advance for the time off stating 'family holiday' as the reason. My job working away means I'm not always home at school holidays and it genuinely was our family holiday that year. All 3 applications were approved and we even put down Glastonbury Festival as our destination. The eldest daughters headmaster personally approved her form and signed it.

Fast forward 7 months later to after the festival when our eldest was summoned to the headmasters office and told that she was being having her attendance marked down for unauthorised absence and she would be sitting detentions to catch up with work! To say that we were fuming is an understatement. We made an appointment to see the headmaster and he was so arrogant to us it was unbelievable. He wouldn't let us speak for ages while he went on a rant about he had agreed to a family holiday and if he had known that we were taking her out to attend a 'rock festival' he would never have agreed to it.

I had wanted to slap his patronising face for speaking to us the way he did but I kept quiet all this time and when he had finally finished lecturing us I asked him how he could justify his reasoning that it was acceptable for her to be out of school and sat on a beach in Benidorm but unacceptable to be attending a cultural music and arts festival that we felt would be beneficial for her to experience. When he started chuntering on about (and I shit you not), hippies and drug taking I stopped listening and handed the copy of the original form over to him whilst smugly pointing out the parts where it clearly stated Glastonbury Fesival and his own signature. 

To then watch the mans face go 3 different shades of red before listening to him stutter "well if I authorised it then there is nothing I can do about it" was, I have to say, an absolute pleasure!

Fortunately our daughter did not suffer any backlash in school for it and has just completed her A levels.

Shaun.

[RazorRat]

Bumping this as its been in the news again recently.

I am looking at taking my two kids out of school for there first Glastonbury, so they will miss two days at school, but im not sure if i should inform the school or not, whats everyones take on it this year.

[Quahog5]

Tough one really. Last summer we went on holiday with my 9 yr old the week before the kids broke up, we thought about phoning him in sick but decided it wasn't fair on him if he was to get quizzed by his teacher. In the end we submitted a request form and got refused, we went anyway and have never heard anything on the subject since from the school. 

Might be worth quizzing the other parents to see how hard on this your school is! I believe each schools set their own parameters on the circumstances with which they report parents to be fined.

[Woffy]

35 minutes ago, RazorRat said:

Bumping this as its been in the news again recently.

I am looking at taking my two kids out of school for there first Glastonbury, so they will miss two days at school, but im not sure if i should inform the school or not, whats everyones take on it this year.

Send them to my kids school. My ex can rarely be bothered to get them there, school year after school year, and the school don't give a toss.

[Matt - Ed Banger Records]

Blissfields festival in Hampshire do a really good scheme where they provide you with a letter for the child's school and have a series of educational activities for the kids which they provide details of to schools should they request them. I know it's unworkable on the scale Glastonbury would need to, but it's encouraging that some festivals are putting thought into it. I know that when I went as a 13 year old I was able to get permission because my Mum detailed all of the potential learning experiences I would be getting. It's such a shame that schools seem more reluctant to support this type of alternative learning for what is a very short period of time out of school.

http://www.blissfields.co.uk/childrens-area/

[Dave_c]

The whole thing is a joke, you should be able to take term time holidays as long is the request is logged well in advance to enable any additional work to be scheduled throughout the year to make up for it. Same for techers, my OT is a teacher and can't take any term time off. 

[bunfight]

1 hour ago, RazorRat said:

.....there first Glastonbury, 

Don't take them out. It obviously doesn't work. 

[faymondo]

Taking the eldest daughter (12) out of school on the Friday and Monday. I was going to write a nice letter about the benefits of the weekend but have been told it will be unauthorised anyway so might as well not bother !

[Flysheet]

Took our two y9 & 10 out last year for 4 days. Teachers were jealous as

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

On 5/3/2017 at 8:11 PM, Matt - Ed Banger Records said:

Blissfields festival in Hampshire do a really good scheme where they provide you with a letter for the child's school and have a series of educational activities for the kids which they provide details of to schools should they request them. I know it's unworkable on the scale Glastonbury would need to, but it's encouraging that some festivals are putting thought into it. I know that when I went as a 13 year old I was able to get permission because my Mum detailed all of the potential learning experiences I would be getting. It's such a shame that schools seem more reluctant to support this type of alternative learning for what is a very short period of time out of school.

http://www.blissfields.co.uk/childrens-area/

Bearded Theory also run a school to get around the absence issue ;

http://www.beardedtheory.co.uk/page/bearded-school

Maybe Glastonbury could offer something similar in the future.

Mine are all grown up and working now however I took them when they were younger and used to write a letter in to the school explaining that it was an educational trip. This worked until the school changed to an Academy. That year I got a shitty letter from them threatening a fine. The letter was very poor with multiple spelling mistakes and they had calculated the absences incorrectly. I highlighted their spelling, corrected their math, graded it a D- and sent it back. Never heard any more about it.