When will this shit end?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Just to add - why wasn't this type of 'event' modelled, modelled again, and remodelled to death 'before' it occurred?

[zahidf]

You cant keep people away from each other until there is a vaccine. Should be a track and trace system asap, and then open back up. 

It's worth noting this

 

 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

You cant keep people away from each other until there is a vaccine. Should be a track and trace system asap, and then open back up. 

It's worth noting this

 

 

Yep that’s very good news ... but you can get cases lower and lower ... 

[stuartbert two hats]

I'm trying not to hope that this idea of the virus being far more infectious and less deadly than first supposed could be true.  Could it be true?  Are we starting to see significant herd immunity effects already?  I'm still not going to the pub for a while, either way!

[st dan]

14 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

This is a killer pandemic. Those stricter laws have been put in place in other countries and in those countries it has worked. So, why weren't they introduced here? Because we are western and don't do that sort of thing? I'll state it again, this is a virtually (but not fully) unprecedented pandemic. Thousands and thousands of UK citizens have now died as a direct failure to act appropriately on this. 

I think that’s the issue here - yes, tragically tens of thousands of people have tragically lost their lives to the awful virus and for that reason it cannot and should not be taken lightly. But at the same time, there has been a constant reminder from the WHO and governments around the world that in the majority of cases, this will be a mild infection with minor, to no, symptoms. Especially for that that are young, fit and healthy. 

That is why after 10 weeks people are starting to slightly relax to this, and risk the likelihood of a mild infection for the chance to sit in the garden or over the park with their family for a cup of tea - it’s a risk vs reward scenario for a lot of people. Now whether that is the right approach is another matter given that hundreds are still dying daily, but it was inevitable. We can’t all stay locked indoors until summer 2021. 

If this was a virus that had an insanely high death rate and catching it meant almost certain death, then it would be a completely different scenario. Also worth noting that nobody is forcing anybody to relax this if they don’t feel comfortable in doing so, and people are free to remain solely indoors if they wish to do so. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by st dan

[Ozanne]

18 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

There's an irony that since the most dangerous contact, indoors contact with non-family members (I.e going to work) is not easily photographed, it doesn't cause any outrage, yet going to a windy place in bright sunshine, mainly with family members (I.e. the beach) causes all this fury and hand wringing despite it being relatively safe.  Have we all forgotten those studies on outdoor events that were being bandied about when we were considering whether Glastonbury could go ahead?  The photos I see are of busy beaches, but still with fairly spread out groups.

I personally won't be going, because I find even the local park a bit too busy at the moment, but with my rational head on, it really doesn't seem all that dangerous.

I get your point and I do agree however the rules state to stay at home as much as possible so why aren’t people able to do that? Surely people can go a few months without heading to the beach to sunbathe. It doesn’t help that our governments messaging has been so poor in all this though. 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

I get your point and I do agree however the rules state to stay at home as much as possible so why aren’t people able to do that? Surely people can go a few months without heading to the beach to sunbathe. It doesn’t help that our governments messaging has been so poor in all this though. 

It's not just for a few months though is it? It's always going to be 'just a few months' with no agreed end point. 

 

Those crowded beaches are taken with a photo lenses to make them seem more crowded than usual. I think most people are keeping outside with social distancing!

[Zoo Music Girl]

57 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I presume the USA and Brazil the other 2 ? Brazil looks like it’s going to be worse than us to me 

Yeah. Looks like they're set for a nightmare over there and not a coincidence that their leader is also a fucking moron.

22 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

There's an irony that since the most dangerous contact, indoors contact with non-family members (I.e going to work) is not easily photographed, it doesn't cause any outrage, yet going to a windy place in bright sunshine, mainly with family members (I.e. the beach) causes all this fury and hand wringing despite it being relatively safe.  Have we all forgotten those studies on outdoor events that were being bandied about when we were considering whether Glastonbury could go ahead?  The photos I see are of busy beaches, but still with fairly spread out groups.

I personally won't be going, because I find even the local park a bit too busy at the moment, but with my rational head on, it really doesn't seem all that dangerous.

That indoors contact is happening too, though. 

11 minutes ago, st dan said:

I think that’s the issue here - yes, tragically tens of thousands of people have tragically lost their lives to the awful virus and for that reason it cannot and should not be taken lightly. But at the same time, there has been a constant reminder from the WHO and governments around the world that in the majority of cases, this will be a mild infection with minor, to no, symptoms. Especially for that that are young, fit and healthy. 

That is why after 10 weeks people are starting to slightly relax to this, and risk the likelihood of a mild infection for the chance to sit in the garden or over the park with their family for a cup of tea - it’s a risk vs reward scenario for a lot of people. Now whether that is the right approach is another matter given that hundreds are still dying daily, but it was inevitable. We can’t all stay locked indoors until summer 2021. 

If this was a virus that had an insanely high death rate and catching it meant almost certain death, then it would be a completely different scenario. Also worth noting that nobody is forcing anybody to relax this if they don’t feel comfortable in doing so, and people are free to remain solely indoors if they wish to do so. 

That's not quite true for everyone is it? Plenty of people, key workers or otherwise, are going to have to go back to work and have no choice in the matter. So it would be nice if selfish dickheads could restrict their socialising just a bit. Too much to ask though, apparently.

48 minutes ago, WestCountryGirl said:

Yeah I'm pretty pissed off about the beach pictures and the headlines all saying that we'll be stay-cationing come July.... we won't be when there's a second wave! And it's these idiots who are out there not giving a shite about social distancing who are going to bring it on, putting more time between me and being able to go and visit my parents for more than an evening. There's 300 miles between us, I can't go there and back in a day for a little chat in the garden. 

I do fear that that's it for our government "enforcing" social distancing though. No way is Good News Boris ever going to come out and say things need to be tightened up again.. as if they were ever that strict in the first place..

 

Yeah we are in the same boat. Our families are a train ride away, so we won't be seeing them - or anyone - for a bit. As I understand it we wouldn't be allowed to sit in the back garden with more than one at a time even if we could, but everyone else seems to be doing this now anyway. Starting to wonder why I'm bothering to stick to the rules when no other fucker seems to be.

[whitehorses]

1 hour ago, Cream Soda said:

There is clear guidance on social distancing though, if people are choosing to ignore that I don't think it's completely fair to blame the government.  If I had turned up to that beach I'd have taken one look and turned around and gone back home.  If I can make that decision, why can't others?  It's not like the guidance on social distancing isn't clear.

Is there any confirmation that that photo is genuine?  Maybe I'm lucky but I'm just not seeing any flouting of social distancing on any sort of scale like this where I live.  Saw a news report from Brighton beach yesterday too and it looked nothing close to that level.

I went to two beaches in Cornwall yesterday. Both car parks totally full (one in one out) and both beaches rammed like July or Aug.

[zahidf]

UK is fourth in infections at the moment, behind US, Brazil and russia. We apparently have more deaths than brazil and russia, bit they are almost definitely lying about their death rate.

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

British exeptionalism aside, I don't think people in this country are that much more stupid than anywhere else in the world. Yet we are one of three countries who have seem to have royally fucked this. The government definitely has some blame in where we are now.

Just to add, Ireland isn't some utopia where everyone does the right thing all the time, we are more than capable of f*cking things up for ourselves. Yesterday and today the weather is beautiful, plenty of people will head to the beach, they'll just get sent home by the police if too many of them turn up (which is pretty much what was happening in the UK up till now). 

[Andy0808 v5]

52 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Why are the police not patrolling along that beach and areas like it to disperse the crowds?  They must have more time on their hands than usual at the moment.

They don’t have the appropriate powers anymore. Now that Boris ‘trusts’ the British public.. 

And where would they even start, asking someone to move on only for them to reply ‘look at everyone else’. Im sure there’s plenty of domestic incidents keeping them busy, especially with their low numbers. 

[steviewevie]

Is it possible those beach photos are a bit misleading and just there to provoke anger?

[Ozanne]

12 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah. Looks like they're set for a nightmare over there and not a coincidence that their leader is also a fucking moron.

That indoors contact is happening too, though. 

That's not quite true for everyone is it? Plenty of people, key workers or otherwise, are going to have to go back to work and have no choice in the matter. So it would be nice if selfish dickheads could restrict their socialising just a bit. Too much to ask though, apparently.

Yeah we are in the same boat. Our families are a train ride away, so we won't be seeing them - or anyone - for a bit. As I understand it we wouldn't be allowed to sit in the back garden with more than one at a time even if we could, but everyone else seems to be doing this now anyway. Starting to wonder why I'm bothering to stick to the rules when no other fucker seems to be.

I was thinking the same thing. Apparently it’s fine now for people to be getting bored and having a day out at the beach.

[Crazyfool01]

Have we seen any countries where the r has massively jumped since lockdown easing ? I know Germany had a daily fluctuation .... how quickly do we see accurate changes coming through ? 

[Zoo Music Girl]

4 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Just to add, Ireland isn't some utopia where everyone does the right thing all the time, we are more than capable of f*cking things up for ourselves. Yesterday and today the weather is beautiful, plenty of people will head to the beach, they'll just get sent home by the police if too many of them turn up (which is pretty much what was happening in the UK up till now). 

Yeah this is kind of my point about the government being at fault really. People might try to take the piss elsewhere, but they get stopped.

I find it bizarre how apparently we are just incapable of having a proper lockdown here (people wouldn't stand for it etc) when plenty of other places have. No idea how people here would cope if they'd had Spain or Italy's restrictions for example. My aunty in Spain left the house once a week for shopping for six weeks or so and that was it. She's allowed out for walks now but a lot of public spaces are still shut. So it can be done if the government can be arsed.

[st dan]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I was thinking the same thing. Apparently it’s fine now for people to be getting bored and having a day out at the beach.

But that’s the thing - following the new government guidelines, it is fine, assuming you are with members of your own household and not sat within 2m of others. Even though the beaches and parks appeared crowded from photographs yesterday, it is impossible for anybody to criticise if the above guidelines were being followed. Me and my wife went over to the local park yesterday for a picnic with the kids, and whilst it was very busy, the vast majority were abiding by these rules. 
The argument as to whether the rules should have been relaxed yet is a totally different issue, and then people (including my family) would have been wrong doing what we did. We’ve followed the guidelines explicitly throughout - as have all my friends, family and local community by the looks of things. 

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, st dan said:

But that’s the thing - following the new government guidelines, it is fine, assuming you are with members of your own household and not sat within 2m of others. Even though the beaches and parks appeared crowded from photographs yesterday, it is impossible for anybody to criticise if the above guidelines were being followed. Me and my wife went over to the local park yesterday for a picnic with the kids, and whilst it was very busy, the vast majority were abiding by these rules. 
The argument as to whether the rules should have been relaxed yet is a totally different issue, and then people (including my family) would have been wrong doing what we did. We’ve followed the guidelines explicitly throughout - as have all my friends, family and local community by the looks of things. 

I'd feel a lot safer sunbathing on a beach than walking around a park full of people exerting themselves, travelling at high speeds and breathing out lots of virus filled water droplets.

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, st dan said:

But that’s the thing - following the new government guidelines, it is fine, assuming you are with members of your own household and not sat within 2m of others. Even though the beaches and parks appeared crowded from photographs yesterday, it is impossible for anybody to criticise if the above guidelines were being followed. Me and my wife went over to the local park yesterday for a picnic with the kids, and whilst it was very busy, the vast majority were abiding by these rules. 
The argument as to whether the rules should have been relaxed yet is a totally different issue, and then people (including my family) would have been wrong doing what we did. We’ve followed the guidelines explicitly throughout - as have all my friends, family and local community by the looks of things. 

Yet the guidelines also say stay at home as much as possible, is going to the beach to sunbathe staying at home as much as possible? I don’t think it is.

 

Just because numbers are falling and the guidelines have been slightly relaxed doesn’t necessarily mean its carte Blanche to go out for the day again.

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yet the guidelines also say stay at home as much as possible, is going to the beach to sunbathe staying at home as much as possible? I don’t think it is.

 

Just because numbers are falling and the guidelines have been slightly relaxed doesn’t necessarily mean its carte Blanche to go out for the day again.

Sunbathing is fine now in the rules. Tbh, if you're 2 m away from people not in your household and outdoors, the risks are relatively minimal. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by zahidf

[Andy0808 v5]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Yet the guidelines also say stay at home as much as possible, is going to the beach to sunbathe staying at home as much as possible? I don’t think it is.

 

Just because numbers are falling and the guidelines have been slightly relaxed doesn’t necessarily mean its carte Blanche to go out for the day again.

Blame lies with shit government advice.

I thought the initial advice in March at the start was vague enough to be abused, but they somehow managed to outdo themselves and make the start of lockdown seem like a well orchestrated plan.

[st dan]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yet the guidelines also say stay at home as much as possible, is going to the beach to sunbathe staying at home as much as possible? I don’t think it is.

 

Just because numbers are falling and the guidelines have been slightly relaxed doesn’t necessarily mean its carte Blanche to go out for the day again.

And that is a fair and valid point. I guess the issue is the ambiguity around the new guidelines that leaves it open to interpretation for each household. As long as you are outdoors and following the 2m rule, I guess there is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ in this scenario. 

I do however think the majority of the country are still abiding by the social distancing measures on a whole - and whilst it may be relaxing, I don’t think the efforts and sacrifices people have made should go unnoticed or under appreciated, as collectively we have saved hundreds of thousands of lives up until this point. It would be silly to let all the hard work go to waste now though.   

Edited May 21, 2020 by st dan

[steviewevie]

Stay Home got replaced with Stay Alert.

[steviewevie]

just need to use good old british common sense...something only us brits were born with.

[Ozanne]

I agree the government advice has been terrible and is a big part of the issue.