When will this shit end?

[FakeEmpire]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

I think all Johnson, Whitty, Valance and Van Tam have to do is hold a conference to explain the reasons behind a month delay - the main factors being the more transmissible Delta variant, which is shown to need two vaccinations to be fully protected against.
Confirm that we will be keeping the current restrictions in place (which will appease the majority) and the additional time enables us to get those double jabs in.
I don’t think it will be seen as ‘back peddling’ if it is delivered strongly and directly, with evidence to back it up.  

But I'd like them to openly explain why some days we are only doing 300k-400k jabs if the barrier to us proceeding to the next step is that we need to do more vaccinations. Why haven't we accelerated this yet?

[Matt42]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

no it isn't, it's silly.

Do you know how the media works? How stories like this get air time?

For example, show runners will be looking for people with extreme views to interview on TV as that’s what gets them clicks or views.

Picture this. You are in the offices of good morning Britain in the run up to lockdown ending. What does your show-runner boss tell you to do? Ring around the houses and find someone who will sit on TV for an hour and claim that lockdown shouldn’t end. This sort of stuff the gp laps up and eventually it starts gaining momentum.

There is no fear mongering story in things getting better and lockdown coming to an end. 

[FakeEmpire]

If we'd bumped up to 800k-1 mil jab a day by the end of May as per all the press reports, cohorts 1-9 would all be double jabbed + 2-3 weeks before 21st June.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, MEGABOWL said:

It’s really not. It’s been apparent for a long time that Independent SAGE are politically motivated, and that they’re given a considerable amount of airtime to push their viewpoints. 

so who else is whispering in the Pms ear ? is that not something that is more of concern than the stuff that people see ? 

[st dan]

Just now, FakeEmpire said:

But I'd like them to openly explain why some days we are only doing 300k-400k jabs if the barrier to us proceeding to the next step is that we need to do more vaccinations. Why haven't we accelerated this yet?

Yep, that would be a fair point and they should rightly be asked such questions. Would also be interested to see their views on reducing the time between doses given the new variant, surely a move to 3 weeks would see more benefit at this stage of the rollout?

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, MEGABOWL said:

It’s really not. It’s been apparent for a long time that Independent SAGE are politically motivated, and that they’re given a considerable amount of airtime to push their viewpoints. 

Well, they warned us about all sorts of stuff that has proved to be a problem eventually. It's not like they invented the indian variant to have a go at the government or anything. It isn't them who have caused the virus to keep spreading through schools. I mean, maybe you don't like what they're saying, maybe you feel they have been too critical of the government, but if you actually look at what they say on their presentations or in joint statements, a lot of it is not political or extreme.

[Matt42]

44 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I blame REAL SAGE. Government need to stop listening to experts so we can crack one off or whatever the expression is.

 

Why is it whenever people criticise indie sage people think they are also criticising real sage? 

[efcfanwirral]

7 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

All of a sudden things are getting a little bit Deja vu. June now slipping into July and July slipping into August.

Yep - drip feeding what was the plan all along - to get every man woman and child double vaccinated before we remove restrictions.

The fact its seamlessly transitioned from 2 to 4 weeks as they've seen support growing for 2 weeks tells me it's going to be longer 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Do you know how the media works? How stories like this get air time?

For example, show runners will be looking for people with extreme views to interview on TV as that’s what gets them clicks or views.

Picture this. You are in the offices of good morning Britain in the run up to lockdown ending. What does your show-runner boss tell you to do? Ring around the houses and find someone who will sit on TV for an hour and claim that lockdown shouldn’t end. This sort of stuff the gp laps up and eventually it starts gaining momentum.

There is no fear mongering story in things getting better and lockdown coming to an end. 

The media is full of good news stories about the success of vaccines etc...Indie Sage are always going on about how good the vaccines are. What they are dealing with is reality. SAGE are doing the same..this is where we are right now, we need more time.

[fraybentos1]

I genuinely don't understand how it is possible for the Indian variant to be so much more transmissible but it hasn't taken off in Italy, USA etc. How can that be possible?

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Matt42 said:

Why is it whenever people criticise indie sage people think they are also criticising real sage? 

because of the link people make that they listen to them and are directly influenced by them  maybe ? 

[steviewevie]

Andy Burnham says need more vaccines up here, quick smart.

[DeanoL]

43 minutes ago, zahidf said:

always opposed the timing of lockdown though, saying it took too long. 

And they've been proven right every fucking time.

Look, I'm not sure I agree with what Indie SAGE are suggesting now, but they've actually got it right every bloody time until now. Their track record is better than pretty much anyone else's. Far better than actual SAGE for that matter.

I know plenty of us on here have agreed with them in the past, and only had an issue with what they're saying now as it does seem over-cautious. But those who have consistently opposed them and disagreed that lockdowns should have happened earlier and been more stringent back in March, July, September and December 2020 really should have realised right now that they don't actually know better than Indie SAGE at all.

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Andy Burnham says need more vaccines up here, quick smart.

I've just realised something - they've told the whole of greater Manchester to only meet outdoors at short notice. Screwing over businesses and employees again. Is furlough that flexible that you can do it with rota'd staff and turn it off and on, or does somebody lose out when indoor hospitality is a lot quieter in those areas? Genuine question I don't know how it works 

Edited June 8, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

And they've been proven right every fucking time.

Look, I'm not sure I agree with what Indie SAGE are suggesting now, but they've actually got it right every bloody time until now. Their track record is better than pretty much anyone else's. Far better than actual SAGE for that matter.

I know plenty of us on here have agreed with them in the past, and only had an issue with what they're saying now as it does seem over-cautious. But those who have consistently opposed them and disagreed that lockdowns should have happened earlier and been more stringent back in March, July, September and December 2020 really should have realised right now that they don't actually know better than Indie SAGE at all.

No they havent. They were calling for schools be closed between Jan and March!

[MEGABOWL]

10 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

so who else is whispering in the Pms ear ? is that not something that is more of concern than the stuff that people see ? 

Yes but I expect the PM to be taking into account all sorts of advice. He’s got elected representatives at the other extreme end of the debate to Independent SAGE, he’s got SAGE and subsidiary bodies, the Treasury, the Cabinet and public opinion to a degree.
 

It’s hard to see the value of a BTEC version of SAGE that are free to dish out advice without any regard to the consequences or any of the restrictions on Media briefing that apply (or should apply) to official Government bodies. Combine that with the phenomenal amount of coverage they’re given by News sources/Social Media posters that are also anti-Government and the fearful, febrile emotions of some of the public and they have a relevance and impact much greater than they warrant.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I've just realised something - they've told the whole of greater Manchester to only meet outdoors at short notice. Screwing over businesses and employees again. Is furlough that flexible that you can do it with rota'd staff and turn it off and on, or does somebody lose out when indoor hospitality is a lot quieter in those areas? Genuine question I don't know how it works 

have they? Thought it was just minimal travel?

[MEGABOWL]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

And they've been proven right every fucking time.

Look, I'm not sure I agree with what Indie SAGE are suggesting now, but they've actually got it right every bloody time until now. Their track record is better than pretty much anyone else's. Far better than actual SAGE for that matter.

I know plenty of us on here have agreed with them in the past, and only had an issue with what they're saying now as it does seem over-cautious. But those who have consistently opposed them and disagreed that lockdowns should have happened earlier and been more stringent back in March, July, September and December 2020 really should have realised right now that they don't actually know better than Indie SAGE at all.

How have they been proved right? Care to show us the alternate timeline you’ve seen?

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

No they havent. They were calling for schools be closed between Jan and March!

schools were closed between Jan and March.

[MEGABOWL]

6 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I've just realised something - they've told the whole of greater Manchester to only meet outdoors at short notice. Screwing over businesses and employees again. Is furlough that flexible that you can do it with rota'd staff and turn it off and on, or does somebody lose out when indoor hospitality is a lot quieter in those areas? Genuine question I don't know how it works 

Furlough is very flexible and (with consideration to Union agreements) can be used with pretty much no notice. Of course that doesn’t help businesses that have to order perishable stock.

[efcfanwirral]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

have they? Thought it was just minimal travel?

"Meet outside rather than inside where possible". The vaguest guidance ever. They could mean households and have worked it poorly but its a very general statement 

 

[zahidf]

Just now, steviewevie said:

schools were closed between Jan and March.

my mistake, but im sure they were briefing against schools reopening this year on the basis of it being too dangerous... again too focused on Covid

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, MEGABOWL said:

Furlough is very flexible and (with consideration to Union agreements) can be used with pretty much no notice. Of course that doesn’t help businesses that have to order perishable stock.

Good to know on the first bit but so true on the second. Those with outdoor areas should be fine with the upcoming weather forecasts but those with only indoor space could have some problems

Edited June 8, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[steviewevie]

Just now, zahidf said:

my mistake, but im sure they were briefing against schools reopening this year on the basis of it being too dangerous... again too focused on Covid

They wanted them opened, but to be safer.

[steviewevie]

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