When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

35 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I dont see how the govt can cancel Xmas now... Maybe reduce the time period? instead of 5 days, have 3 days ( Xmas Eve-Boxing Day)

it's easy, they just cancel it...bit like they did the night before Eid.

[xxialac]

4 minutes ago, incident said:

No. That's flat out incorrect. They'd be changing because the government got them wrong in the first place.

It doesn't matter who has messed up with communication.

What matters is why they would be changing which is to protect the best interests of us all.

Edited December 15, 2020 by xxialac

[Fuzzy Afro]

4 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Covid doesn't respect pre-announced fixed plans (which is why its better to have a framework, rather than determine the action itself in advance).

Anyone who complains about the rules changing needs to take a long look at themselves.

They are changing because a pandemic is growing out of control. That good enough reason for you?

 

Ultimately I think there’s widespread disagreement within society over how serious covid-19 actually is. It represents the fact that human beings find it genuinely quite difficult to quantify risk.

 

There are some people out there who think that at very best covid is several weeks of feeling like absolute shit, and more likely you’ll be very unwell, get long covid or die.

 

Others think covid-19 is just a bad cold that you’ll most likely get over in a few days and only a very unlucky minority get hospitalised or worse.

 

I think that fundamental disagreement is what drives a lot of the arguing over the rules in the first place. Those who think covid is really bad tend to favour stricter rules whereas those who think it’s more minor are more inclined to let it spread. 

[steviewevie]

27 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Hearing good things about the chances of a Brexit deal. 

it's almost as if Bojo played the whole no deal thing not as a negotiation tactic but as a way to dupe the british public that the deal he gets is a massive victory.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

It doesn't matter why they are changing.

What matters is what is in the best interests of us all

Is that even true? 

[xxialac]

For me there have been a few times where there has been an obvious potential disconnect between what is popular in Covid-times and what is in the interests of society.

The government should not be afraid to take the unpopular decisions.

Their first duty is to protect citizens.

Allowing lax rules for 5 days at Christmas is just storing up much worse problems for January and beyond.

[Homer]

1 hour ago, tigger123 said:

Pubs in London are going to be rammed tonight aren’t they...

Went to a comedy club in Covent Garden last night and was surprised it was only half-full. Wahaca in Old Street was pretty dead before that too.

[zahidf]

11 minutes ago, WestCountryGirl said:

I'm sure this will label me an immature, selfish brat, but if the rules do change at this point, I'm going to be absolutely devastated. 

I haven't seen my parents since July. With the relaxation, my boyfriend and I have planned to go and spend Christmas with my parents. Two households. As we live in Liverpool, we're lucky enough to be able to get tested before we go (though I know that isn't perfect), just to give us some more peace of mind. 

Knowing that I would be seeing my parents soon is the only thing that has been getting me through. The only thing. Knowing that it is coming up has meant I have not been crying every day, wondering when I'll next be with my family. 

So thanks, I'll take a "long hard look at myself" when I'm upset, put out, disappointed that there's a rules change, and remind myself of what a twat I am for needing to see my parents in the most responsible way we could.

SOrry to hear that. I do think the 'Cancel christmas' advocates understate how devastated people would feel if it would happen, especally at this last minute point when people have bought so much food. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by zahidf

[incident]

Just now, xxialac said:

It doesn't matter why they are changing.

What matters is what is in the best interests of us all.

It certainly does matter when the claim being made is that people shouldn't be complaining about a change in rules or that to do so is "selfish" or "childish".

The situation has not changed in any unpredictable way since these rules were announced. We are roughly where the scientists said we'd be.

If the Government had said up front "we're going to need you to stay at home", then that'd be one thing, and I'd have respected it - but instead they announced a framework and people have made plans and spent money based on that. In my case, I'm half way through an effective isolation because I want to be confident I'm not creating any risk.

So seriously, fuck this Government. They've got no credibility with me and if the rules do change again I'll talk to my parents and we'll do what we feel is best - not what this utterly discredited shower decide.

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

SOrry to hear that. I do think the 'Cancel christmas' advocates understate how devastated people would feel if it would happen, especally at this last minute point when people have bought so much food. 

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to sound so insensitive.

My frustrations are uniquely with the government, not anyone on here.

[Homer]

34 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

So basically, we think the Government's master plan to save thousands of lives will boil down to:

Sounds about right.

Someone please upvote this for me. I'll pay you back next week.

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to sound so insensitive.

My frustrations are uniquely with the government, not anyone on here.

Oh, its fair enough to blame the government for this fuck up. I think a Uturn will piss too many people off at this stage. I think changing it to 5 to 3 days would be better in the sense of reducing contacts still IMO

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Homer said:

Went to a comedy club in Covent Garden last night and was surprised it was only half-full. Wahaca in Old Street was pretty dead before that too.

maybe some people are worried about a mutant virus!

[Fuzzy Afro]

9 minutes ago, Homer said:

Went to a comedy club in Covent Garden last night and was surprised it was only half-full. Wahaca in Old Street was pretty dead before that too.

London was already in tier 2 meaning you could only go with your own household. Pubs and restaurants are typically used to meet with friends and loved ones that you may not live with. So it’s no shock to me that their usage falls dramatically under tier 2 rules. 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

London was already in tier 2 meaning you could only go with your own household. Pubs and restaurants are typically used to meet with friends and loved ones that you may not live with. So it’s no shock to me that their usage falls dramatically under tier 2 rules. 

Yeah, pubs and restaurants weren't enforcing the two households rules. I don't think they have under any tier 2 area

[steviewevie]

I haven't seen my mum in 2020, or any other family. Mum is 89, turns 90 on new years eve, but I won't be seeing her for xmas or her birthday. It's sad.

But, I will be seeing her in the spring which is only a few months away.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Yeah, pubs and restaurants weren't enforcing the two households rules. I don't think they have under any tier 2 area

no, of course they weren't...they need the business and aren't going to turn people away. Supposed to be same here in Tier3 Manchester for group sports but my kid played badminton with her friends over the weekend and no questions were asked.

[Fuzzy Afro]

Christ even the BMJ are now lying about the Dutch and Germans being more “cautious”. I really wish people would fact check instead of just saying “Country X is now in lockdown”. Lockdown can mean a wide range of different things. 

[DeanoL]

 

36 minutes ago, faymondo said:

My worry is that giving the 5 days will lead to a view of oh well might as well carry it on for the holiday period and that would include new years as well. 

I think that would actually be better, as staying locked down in a Christmas bubble for longer is better than going back to work!

6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

SOrry to hear that. I do think the 'Cancel christmas' advocates understate how devastated people would feel if it would happen, especally at this last minute point when people have bought so much food. 

Yeah - it's a weird hill to die on, to be honest. And if I'm frank I think it often comes from a fairly selfish place of people not being that bothered about seeing their families and not getting that others are.

I mean, broadly I agree with it. We should stop the Christmas household mixing.

But we should also close the schools today.

We should also close all shops and restaurants today.

We should also instruct people not to go to work unless they are key workers.

We should close the gyms.

We should shut the bloody pubs!

There are so many other things we can do and it does really bother me that some people think the Christmas mixing thing is "the one thing" they should change. The UK has, broadly, had more restrictions on household mixing than other EU countries, while being more lax on hospitality and retail. Hence, I think, the need for some sort of social "circuit break" from lockdown - especially in those places that basically haven't left it since March. It's been fairly obvious that compliance with the last lockdown has been low, I think letting people have some time where they can actually see family will help with the inevitable January lockdown anyway.

Yes, the economy and all that. It is a thing. But so is the nation's mental health and general wellbeing. And I think we do need something. And if the numbers say things are going to get out of control, then lets make the sacrifices elsewhere for once.

(It's all a moot point for me as we're now temporarily living with my parents, who would be our Christmas bubble, until we can safely return home or find somewhere else to live).

[Homer]

12 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

London was already in tier 2 meaning you could only go with your own household. Pubs and restaurants are typically used to meet with friends and loved ones that you may not live with. So it’s no shock to me that their usage falls dramatically under tier 2 rules. 

Credit to Wahaca, we got asked if we lived together, even though it was just the wife and I (to be fair, I am punching above my weight there - I can't believe she married me either).

On the other hand, in the comedy club, every time I've been there, it's been a standard joke (regardless of who the compere happens to be) to take the piss out of all the large groups of younger people in the audience, asking them how they all manage to live together.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Homer

[SwedgeAntilles]

 

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Kuenssberg confirms the government is considering a partial u-turn. 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Kuenssberg confirms the government is considering a partial u-turn. 

on what? christmas?

[topmarksbri]

33 minutes ago, WestCountryGirl said:

I'm sure this will label me an immature, selfish brat, but if the rules do change at this point, I'm going to be absolutely devastated. 

I haven't seen my parents since July. With the relaxation, my boyfriend and I have planned to go and spend Christmas with my parents. Two households. As we live in Liverpool, we're lucky enough to be able to get tested before we go (though I know that isn't perfect), just to give us some more peace of mind. 

Knowing that I would be seeing my parents soon is the only thing that has been getting me through. The only thing. Knowing that it is coming up has meant I have not been crying every day, wondering when I'll next be with my family. 

So thanks, I'll take a "long hard look at myself" when I'm upset, put out, disappointed that there's a rules change, and remind myself of what a twat I am for needing to see my parents in the most responsible way we could.

I completely understand that and well done on keeping to the rules so well. I don't think anyone should be labelled as a selfish or whatever - ultimately in my opinion this comes down to emotional decision vs logical one and the emotions of it can be hard to ignore. 

[DeanoL]

Reading between the lines of what the government are saying, I don't think they want to u-turn, I think what they want to say is:

"If you're middle-class, work at home, can drive to your Christmas bubble, then go ahead and see your family. If you're working class, still have to physically go to a place of work and have interactions with other people, and would need to get public transport to your bubble, please don't, it's too dangerous."

Which is a statement that is both true and yet *too* divisive for even this Tory government to make.

(I'm not saying that should be the rule either, just if we want to go properly with "follow the science" then it would be true. And if you feel like a rule like that would be unfair - like I do - then you acknowledge it's not entirely about following the science, and that other things are at play in your thinking)