Proroguing Parliament aregardingt Glastonbury

[bamber]

4 hours ago, uscore said:

My prediction:

Brexit is delayed past October.

Tories / Brexit party wins a reasonable majority in a General Election in November/December

They get the no deal they want.

They do lots of other far-right stuff whilst in government, particularly in regards to immigration.

When everything turns to shit, it's still all Labour and the Remainers' fault.

The coming election will yield another hung parliament I fear. Get used to this folks. 

If you are vaguely 'young' or have late teenage children, urge/implore everyone you know 17 - 19 to VOTE!

Edited September 7, 2019 by bamber

[bamber]

On 9/3/2019 at 12:14 PM, Hugh Jass said:

Has he eaten that dog yet?

Ha!

Poor Mutt!

Edited September 7, 2019 by bamber

[Hugh Jass]

Amber Rudd...

 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Hugh Jass said:

Amber Rudd...

 

The RUDDers falling off  

[eFestivals]

17 hours ago, bamber said:

If you are vaguely 'young' or have late teenage children, urge/implore everyone you know 17 - 19 to VOTE!

this!

And tell them to get their mates to register too.

[Mr.Tease]

10 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

Amber Rudd...

 

Hoping the opinion polls are wrong again, because as much as this week has played well with me and my friends, opinion polls don't seem to show it having the same impact on the public at large, in fact it could be playing well with them. I've always said a more right wing Tory 'populist' party is a much bigger threat than a May style 'one nation' one in todays climate, despite what the media says. Anyways, anyone on the centre or left needs to stop squabbling and work together, otherwise we're facing no deal and Farage/Boris.

[mcshed]

14 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Hoping the opinion polls are wrong again, because as much as this week has played well with me and my friends, opinion polls don't seem to show it having the same impact on the public at large, in fact it could be playing well with them. I've always said a more right wing Tory 'populist' party is a much bigger threat than a May style 'one nation' one in todays climate, despite what the media says. Anyways, anyone on the centre or left needs to stop squabbling and work together, otherwise we're facing no deal and Farage/Boris.

Deltapoll is picking up on some anti-Boris feeling.

 

 

[zero000]

Polling showing an election after the 31st not looking good for the Tories: http://britainelects.com/2019/09/07/poll-tories-will-struggle-in-an-election-if-brexit-delayed/

[Mr.Tease]

1 hour ago, zero000 said:

Polling showing an election after the 31st not looking good for the Tories: http://britainelects.com/2019/09/07/poll-tories-will-struggle-in-an-election-if-brexit-delayed/

I'm wary of polls- the worrying bit is the size of the brexit party - if the tories can gobble up a big chunk of that by making an election all about brexit then we're in trouble. Like wise if the brexit party do a pact with the tories. 

Here's hoping Johnson is exposed the usual liar he is and ends up asking for an extension (after saying he'd rather die or go to jail), that should create a wedge between him and farage and hopefully deter brexit party supporters from switching to the tories. 

[stuartbert two hats]

5 hours ago, zero000 said:

Polling showing an election after the 31st not looking good for the Tories: http://britainelects.com/2019/09/07/poll-tories-will-struggle-in-an-election-if-brexit-delayed/

I hope not, but I find it very hard to put faith in polls that are so hypothetical - I just don't believe people are so rational to accurately predict how they will want to vote at a given point in time.

[Hugh Jass]

8 hours ago, Mr.Tease said:

I'm wary of polls- the worrying bit is the size of the brexit party - if the tories can gobble up a big chunk of that by making an election all about brexit then we're in trouble. Like wise if the brexit party do a pact with the tories. 

Here's hoping Johnson is exposed the usual liar he is and ends up asking for an extension (after saying he'd rather die or go to jail), that should create a wedge between him and farage and hopefully deter brexit party supporters from switching to the tories. 

That’s what my Nan said as she voted Leave.

[zero000]

13 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I hope not, but I find it very hard to put faith in polls that are so hypothetical - I just don't believe people are so rational to accurately predict how they will want to vote at a given point in time.

Reflecting on it I think you're right and it's unlikely to be highly predictive of actual voting. I would think that a failure to deliver Brexit by Halloween is incredibly toxic for Johnson however.

[Mr.Tease]

2 hours ago, zero000 said:

Reflecting on it I think you're right and it's unlikely to be highly predictive of actual voting. I would think that a failure to deliver Brexit by Halloween is incredibly toxic for Johnson however.

The key thing is all his bluster about rather dying in a ditch and also that he might not obey the law. if after all that he then caves in and asks them for an extension (and we get it, which is not guaranteed as France was very reluctant the last time), then he gets exposed again as a complete bull shitter and hopefully the no deal brexiteer tossers will abandon him and go back to the brexit party

[fatyeti24]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

The key thing is all his bluster about rather dying in a ditch and also that he might not obey the law. if after all that he then caves in and asks them for an extension (and we get it, which is not guaranteed as France was very reluctant the last time), then he gets exposed again as a complete bull shitter and hopefully the no deal brexiteer tossers will abandon him and go back to the brexit party

Nah, he'll just use it to further his 'people vs parliament' narrative.  It doesn't matter that he's a bull shitter, everyone already knows that.  As long as he's useful he'll be kept as leader.  He's far more likely to get the extreme brexiteers what they want then Farage's 'party'.

[Mr.Tease]

26 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

Nah, he'll just use it to further his 'people vs parliament' narrative.  It doesn't matter that he's a bull shitter, everyone already knows that.  As long as he's useful he'll be kept as leader.  He's far more likely to get the extreme brexiteers what they want then Farage's 'party'.

He's on top form bullshitter mode today!:

Quote

Johnson says the government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does now want to share them with the media.

 

Quote

 

Johnson says he wants to get a deal.

A no-deal Brexit would be “a failure of statecraft for which we would all be responsible”.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/09/brexit-latest-news-eu-no-deal-bill-royal-assent-boris-johnson-parliament-politics-live

Shameless, lying sack of shit!

[incident]

1 hour ago, Mr.Tease said:

The key thing is all his bluster about rather dying in a ditch and also that he might not obey the law. if after all that he then caves in and asks them for an extension (and we get it, which is not guaranteed as France was very reluctant the last time), then he gets exposed again as a complete bull shitter and hopefully the no deal brexiteer tossers will abandon him and go back to the brexit party

Given the words coming out, and that the tories climbed down on their attempt to block it in the Lords, I'm taking the view that they think they've found some kind of dodge where they can obey the letter of the law and still not get an extension past October 31st. Which would almost certainly end up in the courts and get very messy.

[eFestivals]

27 minutes ago, incident said:

Given the words coming out, and that the tories climbed down on their attempt to block it in the Lords, I'm taking the view that they think they've found some kind of dodge where they can obey the letter of the law and still not get an extension past October 31st. Which would almost certainly end up in the courts and get very messy.

yep, there's defo a plan to some of what Johnson's doing - otherwise there wouldn't be leaks of what his supposed strategy is. 

Those 'leaks' are being used to make the opposition make particular moves, and where the endgame (whatever that is) works out to the favour of Johnson (so Johnson believes, anyway).

[stuartbert two hats]

15 hours ago, zero000 said:

Reflecting on it I think you're right and it's unlikely to be highly predictive of actual voting. I would think that a failure to deliver Brexit by Halloween is incredibly toxic for Johnson however.

Optimistically speaking, it might turn out to be quite accurate. As Johnson proves himself inept as a statesman, his popularity may well decrease. I suspect he won't be a great campaigner.

[H.M.V]

Was down souf for a few hours. 

[uscore]

So was the Northern Ireland-only backstop the real plan all along, with the proroguing designed to limit debate about it, and the general elections a bluff (at least for now)?

I don't know how feasible a NI-only backstop is. Anyone?

[Madyaker]

The UK needs political reform. You can't have a government with no working majority and no mandate from the people just shut down parliament for 5 weeks with the explicit purpose of preventing debate on the most important issue since I don't even know when. That's totally mad, it shouldn't be possible.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Madyaker said:

The UK needs political reform. You can't have a government with no working majority and no mandate from the people just shut down parliament for 5 weeks with the explicit purpose of preventing debate on the most important issue since I don't even know when. That's totally mad, it shouldn't be possible.

is there not a proroguing the prorogument  amendment they could have tabled ?

Edited September 10, 2019 by crazyfool1
yes its bonkers

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, uscore said:

So was the Northern Ireland-only backstop the real plan all along, with the proroguing designed to limit debate about it, and the general elections a bluff (at least for now)?

I don't know how feasible a NI-only backstop is. Anyone?

an NI-only backstop was what the EU originally suggested and what May was going to sign up to - until the DUP kicked off.  So it was extended to be a UK-wide backstop but still referred to as an NI backstop.

Reverting to just NI is certainly a practical option, although all the same problems remain of the DUP objecting and trying to find a majority to vote it thru.

I wouldn't be too surprised if a revised deal was agreed for that, and Johnson tries claiming a victory for it.

It's probably too late to divert things away from an election now tho.

[Mr.Tease]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

an NI-only backstop was what the EU originally suggested and what May was going to sign up to - until the DUP kicked off.  So it was extended to be a UK-wide backstop but still referred to as an NI backstop.

Reverting to just NI is certainly a practical option, although all the same problems remain of the DUP objecting and trying to find a majority to vote it thru.

I wouldn't be too surprised if a revised deal was agreed for that, and Johnson tries claiming a victory for it.

It's probably too late to divert things away from an election now tho.

Can’t help but chuckle at the DUP ultimately ending up screwing themselves, though I wonder if such a deal would have the numbers to pass. I think a chunk of labour mps (Nandy, Kinnock, etc) are ready to fold, guess it just depends on if the ERG will fold too.

[stuartbert two hats]

5 hours ago, uscore said:

So was the Northern Ireland-only backstop the real plan all along, with the proroguing designed to limit debate about it, and the general elections a bluff (at least for now)?

I don't know how feasible a NI-only backstop is. Anyone?

It's the only way I can think of to get Brexit through. It could well lead to the end of the Union and renewed violence in Ireland, but what do Brexiters care about such details?

EDIT: This is assuming the DUP don't hold the balance in a confidence deal after the next election.

Edited September 10, 2019 by stuartbert two hats