Shangri-La 2019

[Kizzie]

1 minute ago, H.M.V said:

Buying you a drink at the efests meet cos I'm out of upvotes. x

Amen to that Sister ?

[H.M.V]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Sing it sister (again). Out of upvotes (again). This argument or some variation of it does seem to come round every two weeks now...

Mad isn't it, the women who agree but men telling us its sexist (not all men). Fucking beggars belief but the temper tantrums speak volumes on why we still need somewhere to feel safe. 

[zeppelin]

I understand that this is a really important and emotive topic, but is there any way we can get back to discussing the music in here? 

I don't want to ignore the subject but I really want to talk about the lineup, and the theme  Etc. but at the moment that will just get lost. And tbh I think people are probably avoiding the thread. 

Maybe we need a separate thread to discuss The Sisterhood and it's merits? 

If you feel like I'm shunning the issue then please let me know and I'm happy to edit out my post. 

[gherkin8r]

10 minutes ago, bluedaisy said:

I'm a woman who's doesn't like idea of "safe spaces for women" - its a blunt hammer to treat a complex problem which only creates more division. I feel that the "fear" is actually being made worse by by things like this not better. 

The whole festival should basically be safe - for everyone - people should be empowered not feel like they have to be penned off because of fear, especially not somewhere like Glastonbury which is renowned for it's friendly atmosphere. That's just my opinion.

Wow. It's ALMOST as if gender isn't the only issue at play here and sometimes people can hold an opinion independent of other people who looksl the same as them

[gherkin8r]

12 minutes ago, bluedaisy said:

I'm a woman who's doesn't like idea of "safe spaces for women" - its a blunt hammer to treat a complex problem which only creates more division. I feel that the "fear" is actually being made worse by by things like this not better. 

The whole festival should basically be safe - for everyone - people should be empowered not feel like they have to be penned off because of fear, especially not somewhere like Glastonbury which is renowned for it's friendly atmosphere. That's just my opinion.

Just as a matter of interest do you cringe when you see people saying things like "your sisters stand with you"? 

[H.M.V]

9 minutes ago, zeppelin said:

I understand that this is a really important and emotive topic, but is there any way we can get back to discussing the music in here? 

I don't want to ignore the subject but I really want to talk about the lineup, and the theme  Etc. but at the moment that will just get lost. And tbh I think people are probably avoiding the thread. 

Maybe we need a separate thread to discuss The Sisterhood and it's merits? 

If you feel like I'm shunning the issue then please let me know and I'm happy to edit out my post. 

Yes please but might I add that it was a man throwing toys out of the pram at the prospect that a tiny venue had the audacity to exclude them. Was here to learn about the new areas and recommendations for music.  

[H.M.V]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

Just as a matter of interest do you cringe when you see people saying things like "your sisters stand with you"? 

No, but I certainly do whenever I read any of your posts. 

[ourkid1984]

I find it sad that people feel the need for a woman only venue at Glastonbury and I don't feel it should be there but that's not because I think it's sexist or anything but because we live in a such a shit state of a country that even in a place like Glastonbury there's enough people that don't feel safe while trying to enjoy entertainment.

We should have a festival without any segregation, no matter how small the venue is but if even 1 person needs a safe space then so be it and I am supportive of it.

The problem is considering its in an area where people are at their most mashed and when people are mashed tends to be when they use that as an excuse to act out of order how are people that feel unsafe get the benefit from the venue? If I was worried about getting abused I don't think a wander down the south east corner in the early hours would be appealing and that makes the whole sad state of affairs so sad.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I think it's open all day and has things like power-tool workshops on.

[gherkin8r]

2 minutes ago, H.M.V said:

No, but I certainly do whenever I read any of your posts. 

You don't cringe when you see a woman professing to speak for the whole gender as if women weren't all capable of independent thinking? 

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, gherkin8r said:

You don't cringe when you see a woman professing to speak for the whole gender as if women weren't all capable of independent thinking? 

Actually no you have already assumed the role of spokesperson earlier in the thread haven't you? 

[bluedaisy]

 

10 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

Just as a matter of interest do you cringe when you see people saying things like "your sisters stand with you"? 

I completely understand why these women feel the way they do. I'm pretty sure most of them have experienced various threatening or unpleasant incidents over the years,  as have I and every woman I know. Having said that, I was pointing that there are women with different opinions to them on this particular issue. 

"do you cringe when you see people saying things like "your sisters stand with you"? " I don't cringe but I do find it unnecessarily divisive in this context. Just my opinion - I'm not trying to offend anyone.

Edited May 2, 2019 by bluedaisy

[CaledonianGonzo]

Dating from its hippy origins I think there's a general misunderstanding about the ethos that underpins the festival that's pretty common on these boards. It's not a cult of the individual free-for-all where there are no restrictions or rules.  Rather it's got a focus on solidarity and consensus.  Eavis is a leftie, not a libertarian.

[ravermum]

23 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

Just as a matter of interest do you cringe when you see people saying things like "your sisters stand with you"? 

We are sisters, united in our experiences of meeting trolls like you on a daily basis. I don’t feel remotely shamed by you. In trying to embarrass me and other women on this thread, you are showing yourself up.

[gherkin8r]

19 minutes ago, bluedaisy said:

 

I completely understand why these women feel the way they do. I'm pretty sure most of them have experienced various threatening or unpleasant incidents over the years,  as have I and every woman I know. Having said that, I was pointing that there are women with different opinions to them on this particular issue. 

"do you cringe when you see people saying things like "your sisters stand with you"? " I don't cringe but I do find it unnecessarily divisive in this context. Just my opinion - I'm not trying to offend anyone.

So we have established that by excluding people from this safe zone based on gender you would be excluding some males who supports such an endeavour and including some women who are against the idea. If that's not an argument against the premise I don't know what is. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by gherkin8r

[ravermum]

18 minutes ago, bluedaisy said:

 

I completely understand why these women feel the way they do. I'm pretty sure most of them have experienced various threatening or unpleasant incidents over the years,  as have I and every woman I know. Having said that, I was pointing that there are women with different opinions to them on this particular issue. 

"do you cringe when you see people saying things like "your sisters stand with you"? " I don't cringe but I do find it unnecessarily divisive in this context. Just my opinion - I'm not trying to offend anyone.

Okay, your sister (singular) stands with you. Happy not to speak for you

[CaledonianGonzo]

3 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

So we have established that by excluding people from this safe zone based on gender you would be excluding some males who supports such an endeavour and including some women who are against the idea. If that's not an argument against the premise I don't know what is. 

I support the idea and am also excluded from it. Yet I'll live.

[gherkin8r]

It's akin to holding an anti racism rally and excluding white people. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, gherkin8r said:

It's akin to holding an anti racism rally and excluding white people. 

No it's not.

[kalifire]

10 minutes ago, gherkin8r said:

So we have established that by excluding people from this safe zone based on gender you would be excluding some males who supports such an endeavour and including some women who are against the idea. If that's not an argument against the premise I don't know what is. 

The counterpoint to that would bet that regardless of the opinion of a 'safe zone', the victims of the kind of behaviour we're talking about are always women, so their interests come first.

That said, you raise a good point. The wider issue of the patriarchy is not gendered, in my opinion. 'Patriarchy' as a behaviour-influencing concept is internalised by many women (and disproportionately by 'influencers') and exacerbated in that way far beyond the reach of the majority of men. In that way, it's systemic and prevalent throughout gender and sex groups. The 'first cause' is masculine, so that's where we work towards a solution, but there are - tragically - willing participants in this thing.

[gherkin8r]

1 minute ago, SomeoneListeningIn said:

2 minutes ago, SomeoneListeningIn said:

No it's not.

 

Good point well made. 

[Guest]

Just now, gherkin8r said:

Good point well made. 

Thanks. As was yours.

[H.M.V]

Morto for the angry man losing his shit cos he's excluded from a venue that he probably couldn't find..... ?

[Magic Rat]

Quick question from a newbie. Are all Shangri La sets late ones? 

Not seen The Damned live in over 25 years. Just wondering what time they are likely to be playing?

[chatty]

OK, I was just making a lighthearted joke, come back a day later and theres about ten pages of messiness.|

I cant wait to see the Damned again.