Mendip Scrutiny Board notes

[5co77ie]

if you read elsewhere it says in the Public Nuisance Prevention report there were 62 traffic congestion complsints - almost half of the 128 complaints in total.

 

http://www.mendip.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=14873&p=0

[Harry49]

Interesting read.

Gave me a greater appreciation for the conditions that the staff, volunteers and in particular the traders had to work in. If us punters thought we had it tough then it sounds like we owe the above a huge thanks for the festival even running last year, let alone so successfully.

In regards to the traffic report - my takeaway would be that in hindsight the conditions generated on Friday needed to be assessed more realistically by GFL and provisions/decisions  for campervans/caravans made by Sunday evening. Sending an email on Tuesday to ticket holders was too little to late. The new Bath & West Showground tickets will y help alleviate this in the future. 

Interseting to see the statement that outside campsite popularity is increasing and that it is seen as having a desirable effect on densities within the wall. Also that due to them being seen as expressions of "entrepreneurship" the council had no control in the number of sites.

But all in all a very positive report considering difficulties.

[waterfalls212434]

10 hours ago, Keithy said:

Thought this was interesting...

"However this year highlighted that Glastonbury Festival Events Limited must have equal regard to the community outside the fence as it does with fee paying guests. The wellbeing of the local residents and the impact on local business must be considered when making strategic decisions and balanced against the desire to ensure that ‘the show must go on"

Sounds a little bit like a shot across the bow....perhaps suggesting that the festival should have been cancelled in the tues morning when it became clear the chaos that was unfolding?

that would never have happened, can you imagine the chaos that would have unfolded if it did? thousands of incredibly pissed off people all going in different directions, some knowing it had been cancelled some not, troublemakers kicking off....it wouldnt have been a good scene

Edited December 20, 2016 by waterfalls212434

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, waterfalls212434 said:

that would never have happened, can you imagine the chaos that would have unfolded if it did? thousands of incredibly pissed off people all going in different directions, some knowing it had been cancelled some not, troublemakers kicking off....it wouldnt have been a good scene

Yeah, there would have been far more chaos to just cancel the whole thing.

[Pinhead]

17 minutes ago, Harry49 said:

Interesting read.

Gave me a greater appreciation for the conditions that the staff, volunteers and in particular the traders had to work in. If us punters thought we had it tough then it sounds like we owe the above a huge thanks for the festival even running last year, let alone so successfully.

In regards to the traffic report - my takeaway would be that in hindsight the conditions generated on Friday needed to be assessed more realistically by GFL and provisions/decisions  for campervans/caravans made by Sunday evening. Sending an email on Tuesday to ticket holders was too little to late. The new Bath & West Showground tickets will y help alleviate this in the future. 

Interseting to see the statement that outside campsite popularity is increasing and that it is seen as having a desirable effect on densities within the wall. Also that due to them being seen as expressions of "entrepreneurship" the council had no control in the number of sites.

But all in all a very positive report considering difficulties.

There has got to be a point though surely when the external campsite enterprises begin to impact on the logistic management, say of traffic management (for example), since from the report they appear to be under no obligation to co-ordinate with the festival as a whole, being outside the license and auditing framework.

[eFestivals]

and in context, while the traffic was bad, it's nothing that hasn't happened before, and it used to be every year back in the 80s/early 90s.

It was pretty obvious that there wouldn't be much fuss about it, with the council only saying 'get a better plan' - and I don't think there's any feeling within the festival that they shouldn't get a better plan, either.

We've already seen Bath & West showground formally brought into play for CVs, and on local TV (this morning, I think) they said that in future it would be used as an emergency car park if there's similar problems.

(so if you want to minimise your chances of being sent there if there's bad problems in the future, it's prolly best to come in from Glasto town direction )

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, Pinhead said:

There has got to be a point though surely when the external campsite enterprises begin to impact on the logistic management, say of traffic management (for example), since from the report they appear to be under no obligation to co-ordinate with the festival as a whole, being outside the license and auditing framework.

it's probably the case that the traffic for them tends to be more outside of peak hours than the average and with a lesser chance of gate queues, so they're looked on as generally-beneficial from a traffic management point of view.

Don't forget, they don't create extra traffic - all the same people would be coming to the festival anyway -  but just different traffic.

Edited December 20, 2016 by eFestivals

[Pinhead]

Yes, that's a good point - essentially spreading the load between camping destinations over a longer arrival time window.

Perhaps there is scope for GFEL to attempt the same with their campsite and site access point distribution - tickets could be married to a campsite / route for which there are staggered arrival times published. I expect this has been suggested before however, and to some extent this happens naturally in terms of the North / South divide of camping on site and the incoming main roads, though I know of many who deliberately do a longer road trip when coming in from the North for example, going via Wells and Glastonbury, in order to be able to access a preferred South side campsite.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Pinhead

[stuartbert two hats]

20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's probably the case that the traffic for them tends to be more outside of peak hours than the average and with a lesser chance of gate queues, so they're looked on as generally-beneficial from a traffic management point of view.

Don't forget, they don't create extra traffic - all the same people would be coming to the festival anyway -  but just different traffic.

And at some point, along different roads.  I agree, they're more likely to do good than harm from a traffic POV.

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, Pinhead said:

Yes, that's a good point - essentially spreading the load between camping destinations over a longer arrival time window.

Perhaps there is scope for GFEL to attempt the same with their campsite and site access point distribution - tickets could be married to a campsite / route for which there are staggered arrival times published. I expect this has been suggested before however, and to some extent this happens naturally in terms of the North / South divide of camping on site and the incoming main roads, though I know of many who deliberately do a longer road trip when coming in from the North for example, going via Wells and Glastonbury, in order to be able to access a preferred South side campsite.

there'd be little point in doing a timed-arrival thing, as there's too many things that make it impractical to work (like traffic jams just outside Glasgow, for example, or Leeds, or Leicester, wherever), and it'd create worse problems to turn people away who arrived at the wrong time - meaning they'd have to let them in, meaning that you can't work a timed-arrival anyway.

In the other thread scottie just posted some text from the report where the council notes the external operators risk fucking things up for everyone, so I reckon there's plan afoot for how they can brought into the overall planning (local licencing bylaws, perhaps? No idea if that's possible).

 

[Pinhead]

Yeah, just read that post. Makes sense since they are increasing in number and are essentially unregulated it appears, yet their management (or lack of) can have a potential impact on the review of the organisation of the festival as a whole. Reminds me of the time a few years ago now when the operator of one went bust (or ran off with all the cash), and ME had to step in and organise a replacement for those who has booked, which subsequently evolved into Worthy View.

[HoTWire]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

(so if you want to minimise your chances of being sent there if there's bad problems in the future, it's prolly best to come in from Glasto town direction )

Yes do that... keep my local roads clear  

[giantkatestacks]

I wish we had the on site notes for the last year as well - I know it is a faff getting hold of them though.

[bexj]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

there'd be little point in doing a timed-arrival thing, as there's too many things that make it impractical to work (like traffic jams just outside Glasgow, for example, or Leeds, or Leicester, wherever), and it'd create worse problems to turn people away who arrived at the wrong time - meaning they'd have to let them in, meaning that you can't work a timed-arrival anyway.

No, but they could do a Wednesday ticket, Thursday ticket type thing - with a dedicated camp site for the Thursday arrivals.  It may stop people doing that mad early Wednesday dash

Quote

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by bexj

[Untz]

19 minutes ago, bexj said:

No, but they could do a Wednesday ticket, Thursday ticket type thing - with a dedicated camp site for the Thursday arrivals.  It may stop people doing that mad early Wednesday dash

Oh the scenes if Pennards and the-camping-field-opposite-the-Pyramid-stage were reserved for Thursday ticketees only.

[Memory Man]

21 minutes ago, bexj said:

No, but they could do a Wednesday ticket, Thursday ticket type thing - with a dedicated camp site for the Thursday arrivals.  It may stop people doing that mad early Wednesday dash

 

definitely think this is something they should seriously consider, as long as there was a dedicated thursday campsite kept completely free of all tents from other arrivals.

[matt2007]

As a worker my team of 40 did our best to make things better, the weight of a wheely bin full of beer cans vs those covered in mud was incredible. I had petite female members lugging them about for hours at a time.

These were the cans stomped into the mud by those too lazy to walk to a bin! 

All were volunteers!!!!!

[eFestivals]

35 minutes ago, bexj said:

No, but they could do a Wednesday ticket, Thursday ticket type thing - with a dedicated camp site for the Thursday arrivals.  It may stop people doing that mad early Wednesday dash

Nah, just wouldn't work without changing hugely what the festival is.

They fucked up big styleee when they decided to say it started on Wednesday, and there's no going back from that.

 

[bexj]

24 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Nah, just wouldn't work without changing hugely what the festival is.

They fucked up big styleee when they decided to say it started on Wednesday, and there's no going back from that.

 

But to an extent the festival has already changed hugely and will continue to do so.  Whether that is introducing tiered ticketing, knocking back the capacity or charging a million pounds for a ticket, its inevitable that something has to change.  

 

[eFestivals]

24 minutes ago, bexj said:

But to an extent the festival has already changed hugely and will continue to do so.  Whether that is introducing tiered ticketing, knocking back the capacity or charging a million pounds for a ticket, its inevitable that something has to change.  

 

true, but they'll be changes that they want to make, changes that come as a consequence of something else which are acceptable, and then changes they don't want to happen if they can be avoided.

The whole point of saying it opened on Wednesday was to maximise the numbers from Wednesday, I guess so they could charge traders and bar concessions more, plus to emphasise the good value to punters - and so while there might be good reasons to switch to designated days of arrival, it works against something else they've wanted to do.

I don't really see the necessity to stagger arrivals, because they naturally stagger themselves to a large degree - tho some of that is still settling down from them having allowed arrival (but not entrance) on Tuesday.

What happened this year was exceptional - due to factors outside of anyone's control (the weather) - plus a bad decision to delay cv entrance. The consequences of the delay to cv's was obvious from the moment they announced it, and that more than anything was the cause. 

I'm surprised it wasn't called out as bad by some of the senior staff to stop it happening in the first place, tho perhaps they were deferring to Michael's knowledge of the land. Whatever, I can't see that happening again with anything like the same amount of chaos.

[grumpyhack]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

What happened this year was exceptional - due to factors outside of anyone's control (the weather) - plus a bad decision to delay cv entrance. The consequences of the delay to cv's was obvious from the moment they announced it, and that more than anything was the cause. 

I'm surprised it wasn't called out as bad by some of the senior staff to stop it happening in the first place, tho perhaps they were deferring to Michael's knowledge of the land. Whatever, I can't see that happening again with anything like the same amount of chaos.

It may just be the rumours that spread around on arrival but wasn't the delay in opening the CV Fields in part due to the non-arrival of a load of tracking that was stuck in the mud at another festival?

As you say Neil, it turned out to be a very bad call.  When vehicles have to be towed in at the start of a festival you know you've got problems stacking up.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Although arrivals will to an extent naturally stagger themselves, the popularity of the festival and the difficulty in obtaining a ticket will naturally and understandably mean every year more people want to get there as early as possible to make the most of it. When you get a bad weather situation like his year it obviously makes things a lot worse. One thing the festival can very easily do to change this, is increase the ratio of coach tickets they sell. This way they have direct control over when more people arrive. Obviously it's a fine line as if they made every ticket a coach ticket (I doubt there are even enough coaches in the country to make this viable) they would potentially risk selling out. Clearly they are a long way from this at the moment though.