Are we In or Out?

[shoptildrop]

I just wish they would explain more on how businesses and trade will actually look like if we left? As all the stuff I've seen so far is mainly scaremongering ....I still not sure 

[zico martin]

thanks guys and gals i think you have confirmed that I am right to erring on the IN vote

[Mardy]

Just now, Scruffylovemonster said:

It's astounding really when you lay it all out like that. 

Don't get me started on what they've done with pensions 

[Woffy]

1 minute ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

Yeah that's what it was 'talking.'

Ouchy. You took one of the 'from behind' talks. My sympathies, Scruff. Happy John Wayne-ing.

[musky]

22 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Generally people get more conservative as they get older.

 

but Calgon has nailed it really. The generation that benefitted most from the welfare state, free education, affordable housing etc etc has done everything they can to screw the following generations and ensure their comfort at massive cost to young people today.

To be fair, blaming an entire generation for the actions of a wealthy minority is going a little far. We've now had over 35 years of right wing governments happy to weaken all opposition to them and they are now in a position to roll back a welfare state that they were largely forced into. 

Despite this there still appears to be no appetite amongst the general populace to organise in a meaningful manner, and that goes as much for the young as the old. 

[Woffy]

1 minute ago, Mardy said:

Don't get me started on what they've done with pensions 

If I was a career Cancer Research UK scientist I'd be fucking devastated / furious / rioting today. Appalling.

[JanieM28]

1 minute ago, shoptildrop said:

I just wish they would explain more on how businesses and trade will actually look like if we left? As all the stuff I've seen so far is mainly scaremongering ....I still not sure 

I quite agree! My husband and I are at opposite ends of the vote - but we both agree that it's because no-one has given us a compelling argument to change our minds either way. We would both need a reasoned, COMPELLING, argument to change our minds. 

At the moment we are both voting by instinct and gut feeling. Which, frankly is not necessarily a good thing.

[Crazyfool01]

I really dont want my 40th celebrations ruined by the thought of an out vote , lets hope it goes something like the poll on here !!

[Mr.Tease]

30 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Baby boomers benefitted from free university education then stopped the next generation from enjoying it. 

Baby boomers enjoyed free healthcare then introduced the market system into the nhs

baby boomers were able to buy houses at 2.5-3 times the salary of a young semi skilled worker and then benefitted massively from the hoysing bubble caused by their economic policies.

 

they have consistenly denied the advantages they had to the following generations

 

now, clearly not all individuals are selfish, but as a generation, overall, it's impossible to argue they have had a far far better life than their parents before them and the generation following them. Every single statistical and economic indicator shows this to be true.

Don't forget they enjoyed having all state assets privatised so they could enjoy short term tax cuts too! 

[Woffy]

9 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I really dont want my 40th celebrations ruined by the thought of an out vote , lets hope it goes something like the poll on here !!

God, it's all 'ME, ME ME!' with you, innit!

;-)

[Mardy]

21 minutes ago, Woffy said:

If I was a career Cancer Research UK scientist I'd be fucking devastated / furious / rioting today. Appalling.

Ah man, i'd missed that. Unfuckingbelievable.

[Mr.Tease]

41 minutes ago, JanieM28 said:

Wow! That is a completely unfair generalisation about Baby Boomers! As far as I'm aware, most of my Baby Boomer friends are using their money to help their kids pay for university, re-mortgaging their own homes to help them get on the property ladder and acting as the Bank of Mum and Dad when a family member needs help.

Are they supposed to give their hard-earned money to the fat cats in government, especially the ones in the EU instead of helping their families?

 

You just made a patronising and unfair generalisation about young people. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Woffy said:

God, it's all 'ME, ME ME!' with you, innit!

;-)

well an out or in vote has an impact on my future and the future of others and as my preference is to stay in , then in this instance I will choose the ME ME ME option , or the Michael Eavis , Michael Eavis , Michael Eavis option

[Wherethewildthingsare]

28 minutes ago, musky said:

To be fair, blaming an entire generation for the actions of a wealthy minority is going a little far. We've now had over 35 years of right wing governments happy to weaken all opposition to them and they are now in a position to roll back a welfare state that they were largely forced into. 

Despite this there still appears to be no appetite amongst the general populace to organise in a meaningful manner, and that goes as much for the young as the old. 

Someone had to vote them in!

[SwedgeAntilles]

Shake it all about 

[musky]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Don't forget they enjoyed having all state assets privatised so they could enjoy short term tax cuts too! 

No, they enjoyed having taxation transferred to spending rather than income, so that the poorest saw little difference in overall taxation whilst the most wealthy saw massive reductions long term. 

Wrong targets guys. There is a theme to the real beneficiaries to the changes we've seen in the last 35 years but it not based on age. 

[Mardy]

7 minutes ago, Wherethewildthingsare said:

Someone had to vote them in!

Exactly

[clarkete]

33 minutes ago, JanieM28 said:

I quite agree! My husband and I are at opposite ends of the vote - but we both agree that it's because no-one has given us a compelling argument to change our minds either way. We would both need a reasoned, COMPELLING, argument to change our minds. 

At the moment we are both voting by instinct and gut feeling. Which, frankly is not necessarily a good thing.

There are no end of groups lining up to say how things would look if we left and there's a common thread - it's not good.

There are no credible groups saying that we would be better off in that circumstance, just a few rich folks bank rolling the exit camping, some has beens and a few selfish tories who are hoping it will improve their chance in the leadership election in the future.

 

[Abensie]

I wouldn't be so sure that this vote won;t be tighter than they think.  Someone made the point about voter turnout, and much like the general election, there is a quiet conservative backbone that will be highly motivated to get to the polling booths. It would be interesting to see if the voter demographic changes significantly.  you might see a few of the less educated with more apathy towards general elections getting off their arses and voting for something that they actually understand effects their lives.  

I'm voting in.  Largely because of Trump and Putin.  But i am not happy about that being the decision i feel i have to make.  The EU is already a failed experiment and none of the structural, fiscal issues that were laid bear after 2008 have been fixed. I expect that sooner or later the house of cards that is Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the Eastern states economies will dissolve the union through force majeure.   In fact the only thing that might save Europe is, ironically, a major war with an outside force.

[Mardy]

3 minutes ago, musky said:

No, they enjoyed having taxation transferred to spending rather than income, so that the poorest saw little difference in overall taxation whilst the most wealthy saw massive reductions long term. 

Wrong targets guys. There is a theme to the real beneficiaries to the changes we've seen in the last 35 years but it not based on age. 

Not necessarly a 'target', but it's a fact, baby boomers control a huge proprtion of the wealth/assetsin this country, even taking into account the disparity between rich and poor among that particular demographic. Again, how many semi skilled 20 year olds can get a mortgage these days? 

 

I agree that the rich have gotten richer, no doubt about it, but that's not the discussion here, it's more about voting intentions of the over 50s

[Jennings74]

If we vote to leave and go alone we can buddy up with North Korea.

But the government should have let 16 years old vote as its their future too 

[musky]

23 minutes ago, Wherethewildthingsare said:

Someone had to vote them in!

Of course they did, but let's not pretend that Thatcher was voted in entirely by a group of people born over a 16 year or so period. There was considerable opposition to her, reflected in opinion polls that prior to the Falklands War put her as the most unpopular PM in modern times. 

And none of that would matter a damn if pointing the finger at a nebulous group of Baby Boomers didn't allow the real culprits off the hook. It's actually possible to name names of people who are making the lives of millions of people worse rather than damning a diverse group of people, many of whom have spent a life opposing the attacks we've seen. 

Edited May 29, 2016 by musky

[Woffy]

25 minutes ago, Mardy said:

Ah man, i'd missed that. Unfuckingbelievable.

Up there with the Church of England investing in arms / weapons manufacturers.

CRUK pensions though. Fuck. Stunningly incompre(repre-)hensible.

[Babylon sister]

I'm in  

[Crystal Waters]

3 minutes ago, musky said:

 

And none of that would matter a damn if pointing the finger at a nebulous group of Baby Boomers didn't allow the real culprits off the hook. It's actually possible to name names of people who are making the lives of millions of people worse rather than damning a diverse group of people, many of whom have spent a life opposing the attacks we've seen. 

I think this is a very important point. The people making life worse are making it worse for the young and the old, the sick, the disabled and generally anybody who isn't rich.