Kneecap

[Nicklord]

3 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

I get that this is a festival message board and so an attack on a festival is a particularly emotive subject, but placing October 7th in it's context is not making excuses for it

The whole war and its issues are way too deep for some short messages on the message board. I agree. It is a very complex issue, but that doesn't mean some things are unclear.

 

I guess I'm just disagreeing that because the issue is complex, that makes it somewhat okay for Kneecap to support Hamas and Hezbollah. People wrote several posts trying to make a case that saying things on stage shouldn't be taken seriously, taking pictures and posting on Instagram as well - "oh, it's actually just them being edgy haha". No, people should stop making excuses for Kneecap just because the issue is complex.

[Franky]

Is this still going ???

 

When there are people in the weather thread predicting doom and gloom!!!

 

Come on guys and gals, priorities eh 🤷‍♂️

[Gnomicide]

1 hour ago, incident said:

 

John is the area manager and apparently doesn't have any direct hand in bookings - that's done by Steve Symons.

 

Though obviously that's somewhat pedantry and doesn't undercut your point.

 

 

 

Has anyone checked if Kneecap are on Steve's latest Spotify playlist?

[Alvoram]

51 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

And as for what you’ve called a “conspiracy” - you’re entitled to that view. My opinion, which is shared by many including the band themselves, is that following Coachella, there was a coordinated effort to cancel Kneecap on a global scale. The resurfacing of those videos feels like part of that push. If you think it was just coincidence, that’s your call, but I’ve already said my piece over the past 25 pages.

I've stayed out of this so far, so as to be impartial when moderating (although I obviously have my own personal views, and it's been extremely difficult sometimes not to share them.)

However, I do want to make this point, as I don't think it's been made yet. This is not a clear cut question of whether it's a coincidence or not. It could both 'not be a coincidence' and 'not be a conspiracy' at the same time, they're not mutually exclusive. 

We need to ask ourselves 2 questions.

Firstly, did this footage come to light because Kneecap played, and made headlines at, Coachella? And I think the answer to that is undoubtedly 'yes.' 

Secondly though, did it come to light just because Kneecap have now put themselves more in the spotlight in general? Or, did it come to light because higher powers have formulated a plot to cancel them, and steer the narrative away from an ally's atrocities? This cannot be answered so confidently. I know what I personally think, but it's worth remembering that without proof, some will consider this a 'conspiracy theory.' 

[TheDayman]

59 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

The 2nd response to my message explains what I mean. I'm saying that supporting Hamas is bad. I get a response that the festival massacre wasn't the start. Yes, I know it wasn't the start, far far from it - that doesn't mean people should make excuses for Hamas.

 

People often still sing “Up the ’RA,” but as we’ve consistently said here, context matters. It’s not a literal endorsement of violence or the specific actions of the IRA. More often, it’s a symbol of resistance, national identity, and solidarity with a history of fighting oppression.

 

In the same way, “Up Hamas” and “Up Hezbollah” weren’t endorsements of those groups’ actions, but rather an alignment - however provocative - with the broader ideals they represent: anti-colonialism and the right to self-determination.

 

I also addressed this point in the post below.

 

On 30/04/2025 at 15:32, TheDayman said:

 

I’ve said elsewhere - and I’ll say again - I was disappointed they said it.
 

That said, I also believe it was a deliberately provocative act aimed at drawing attention to the hypocrisy in Western political discourse: how some forms of violence are accepted - or even celebrated - when carried out by states, while any expression of solidarity with the oppressed is instantly vilified. As @Levitz alluded to earlier, “freedom fighter” versus “terrorist” often depends on who’s writing the headlines.
 

Hamas is widely condemned – why? Because of its use of violence - rocket attacks, suicide bombings, and a charter that includes anti-Israel rhetoric. These are valid concerns, and many people, including pro-Palestinians, reject Hamas’s methods.

 

But the hypocrisy lies in how state violence - like Israel's bombing of civilian infrastructure, mass displacement, and systemic apartheid policies - is often defended or ignored by the same critics. When a non-state actor kills civilians, it’s “terrorism”; when a state does it with vastly greater firepower, it’s called “self-defence.”
 

The outrage is selective, and that’s what Kneecap are attempting to provoke people to confront, clumsily or not.

 

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

I've stayed out of this so far, so as to be impartial when moderating (although I obviously have my own personal views, and it's been extremely difficult sometimes not to share them.)

However, I do want to make this point, as I don't think it's been made yet. This is not a clear cut question of whether it's a coincidence or not. It could both 'not be a coincidence' and 'not be a conspiracy' at the same time, they're not mutually exclusive. 

We need to ask ourselves 2 questions.

Firstly, did this footage come to light because Kneecap played, and made headlines at, Coachella? And I think the answer to that is undoubtedly 'yes.' 

Secondly though, did it come to light just because Kneecap have now put themselves more in the spotlight in general? Or, did it come to light because higher powers have formulated a plot to cancel them, and steer the narrative away from an ally's atrocities? This cannot be answered so confidently. I know what I personally think, but it's worth remembering that without proof, some will consider this a 'conspiracy theory.' 

I expect it is simply they became the news because of coachella and media went digging and it wasn't hard to find more dirt on them. Maybe it's because the media are all driven by zionist overlords, or maybe Kneecap management fed them this stuff to help sell tickets, or more likely it's just because it sells papers (or gets clicks or whatever).

 

And maybe some MPs don't particularly like the Kill MPs thing for obvious reasons.

Edited May 2, 2025 by steviewevie

[Colorblindjames]

1 hour ago, Nicklord said:

The whole war and its issues are way too deep for some short messages on the message board. I agree. It is a very complex issue, but that doesn't mean some things are unclear.

 

I guess I'm just disagreeing that because the issue is complex, that makes it somewhat okay for Kneecap to support Hamas and Hezbollah. People wrote several posts trying to make a case that saying things on stage shouldn't be taken seriously, taking pictures and posting on Instagram as well - "oh, it's actually just them being edgy haha". No, people should stop making excuses for Kneecap just because the issue is complex.

Likewise people should accept their apology and clarification and move on. 

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

 

 

In the same way, “Up Hamas” and “Up Hezbollah” weren’t endorsements of those groups’ actions, but rather an alignment - however provocative - with the broader ideals they represent: anti-colonialism and the right to self-determination.

 

 

 

 

see...this is just kind of bullshit.

Either they should own this stuff, or not say it.

[TheDayman]

8 minutes ago, Alvoram said:

Secondly though, did it come to light just because Kneecap have now put themselves more in the spotlight in general? Or, did it come to light because higher powers have formulated a plot to cancel them, and steer the narrative away from an ally's atrocities? This cannot be answered so confidently. I know what I personally think, but it's worth remembering that without proof, some will consider this a 'conspiracy theory.' 

 

First off, thank you to you and the other mods for your work over the past week. I can only imagine how challenging it’s been to moderate this thread, and I just want to say it hasn’t gone unnoticed, at least not by me. I hadn’t even considered the added difficulty of trying to remain impartial throughout it all, so hats off to you all!

 

It’s probably worthwhile that I expand on this as I’m guilty of insinuated “higher powers” at play. I wasn’t suggesting a shadowy cabal or anything of the sort but it’s fair to say that powerful individuals and organisations have aligned interests and sometimes acted in concert, whether publicly or behind the scenes.

 

People like Sharon Osbourne, certain MPs, and well-connected advocacy groups have all contributed to the pushback against Kneecap. Some of these groups do receive state support, and it’s no secret that countries - including Israel - have dedicated resources to shaping online discourse in their favour. So, while it’s hard to “prove” a coordinated effort, the way the backlash unfolded - particularly in the wake of Coachella - I think it’s fair to say it raises valid questions about influence and agenda.

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, TheDayman said:

 

I think you’re referring to my earlier posts.

 

If you flip to page 5, you’ll see I also mentioned a very constructive conversation I had with a Jewish guy at the Pyramid Stage last year. I described myself as pro-Palestine and anti-Israeli government, and I explicitly stated I’m not anti-Jewish.

 

I’ve spoken at length about how one person’s terrorist can be another’s freedom fighter. I don’t see the need to rehash everything here, so I’ll just say this: recognising that complexity doesn’t mean endorsing violence or taking sides.

 

And as for what you’ve called a “conspiracy” - you’re entitled to that view. My opinion, which is shared by many including the band themselves, is that following Coachella, there was a coordinated effort to cancel Kneecap on a global scale. The resurfacing of those videos feels like part of that push. If you think it was just coincidence, that’s your call, but I’ve already said my piece over the past 25 pages.

Bringing up the old videos isn't a  coincidence. People always trawl social media to find something to attack. But the Tories originally criticised Kneecap because they were republicans who received Govt grants. Politicians want Glastonbury to cancel them because of the comments about killing MP's. In the UK it's not just about the Up Hamas comments.

 

 

 

[TheDayman]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

see...this is just kind of bullshit.

Either they should own this stuff, or not say it.

It’s not about dodging responsibility, it’s about nuance. Saying something provocative to highlight hypocrisy isn’t the same as endorsing everything behind the slogan.

[Colorblindjames]

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

see...this is just kind of bullshit.

Either they should own this stuff, or not say it.

Which brings us back full circle to the English language, figurative language, context and nuance. 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Which brings us back full circle to the English language, figurative language, context and nuance. 

Ok, so when they're shouting Up Hamas they don't actually mean Up Hamas, it's all to do with context and nuance. What they meant was Israeli are genocidal scumbags. Hope the counter terrorism police take this into context.

And when they say Kill your MP they didn't actually mean go and kill your MP, but that MPs are sh*t and we are cool like the IRA or something.

[fraybentos1]

8 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Which brings us back full circle to the English language, figurative language, context and nuance. 

Why did they apologise then?

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

I get that this is a festival message board and so an attack on a festival is a particularly emotive subject, but placing October 7th in it's context is not making excuses for it

 

Its not condemning it either.

 

On 30/04/2025 at 19:08, JimiC999 said:

Most of those attacked / killed at The Nova Festival would have been Israeli Military Reservists, wouldn’t they?…….. 

 

Are you saying they were legitimate targets?

 

On 29/04/2025 at 19:10, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

What's rarely mentioned in the context of October 7th is that, prior to the Hamas attacks, 2023 (and 2022 before it) were the deadliest years on record for Palestinian children in the Occupied Terriitories.

 

Note the date on this report from HRW:

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

 

[quote]Israeli forces killed at least 614 Palestinians whom the UN classified as civilians in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank during this period.[/quote]

 

It's controversial, but armed resistance to colonial repression is - to an extent - protected under international law and the right to resist is a human right.

 

The Israeli position that nothing justified October 7th but that October 7th justifies everything that followed should be shouted down wherever it surfaces.

 

Hamas go a bit further than exercise a right to resist. 

Alongside the warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant, the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Hamas commander Mohammed Deif  for "crimes against humanity of murder; extermination; torture; and rape and other form of sexual violence; as well as the war crimes of murder, cruel treatment, torture; taking hostages; outrages upon personal dignity; and rape and other form of sexual violence.

 

 

 

[Levitz]

43 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I expect it is simply they became the news because of coachella and media went digging and it wasn't hard to find more dirt on them. Maybe it's because the media are all driven by zionist overlords, or maybe Kneecap management fed them this stuff to help sell tickets, or more likely it's just because it sells papers (or gets clicks or whatever).

 

And maybe some MPs don't particularly like the Kill MPs thing for obvious reasons.

It's not a conspiracy to see the work of CAA or UK Lawyers for Israel, or note that MPs making noise are members of Labour Friends of Israel and receive funding. All of this happened in after 2016 too. 

[Physical_graffiti]

12 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Ok, so when they're shouting Up Hamas they don't actually mean Up Hamas, it's all to do with context and nuance. What they meant was Israeli are genocidal scumbags. Hope the counter terrorism police take this into context.

And when they say Kill your MP they didn't actually mean go and kill your MP, but that MPs are sh*t and we are cool like the IRA or something.

I don't understand why you're pretending this is difficult. Exactly that - when they say kill your MP they didn't actually mean kill your mp.

[TheDayman]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Ok, so when they're shouting Up Hamas they don't actually mean Up Hamas, it's all to do with context and nuance. What they meant was Israeli are genocidal scumbags. Hope the counter terrorism police take this into context.

And when they say Kill your MP they didn't actually mean go and kill your MP, but that MPs are sh*t and we are cool like the IRA or something.

 

It’s getting tiresome going over and over the same point - I’m pretty sure everyone has condemned the “Kill your MP” comment, with the band itself apologising.

 

This issue is the double standard. As far as I’m aware, counter terrorism police weren’t called in for Tory donor Frank Hester when he claimed black MP Diane Abbott, “should be shot”.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Hester

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

 

It’s getting tiresome going over and over the same point - I’m pretty sure everyone has condemned the “Kill your MP” comment, with the band itself apologising.

 

This issue is the double standard. As far as I’m aware, counter terrorism police weren’t called in for Tory donor Frank Hester when he claimed black MP Diane Abbott, “should be shot”.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Hester

there's the double whammy of showing support for a terrorist group, and saying kill your MP. That's more likely why counter terrorism are involved.

[Colorblindjames]

26 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Why did they apologise then?

They apologised for the MP stuff but clarified their stance on terrorism. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

21 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Hamas go a bit further than exercise a right to resist. 

Alongside the warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant, the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Hamas commander Mohammed Deif  for "crimes against humanity of murder; extermination; torture; and rape and other form of sexual violence; as well as the war crimes of murder, cruel treatment, torture; taking hostages; outrages upon personal dignity; and rape and other form of sexual violence.

 

He should have been brought to justice, no question

 

Instead there was a massacre of Palestinian civilians

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/13_July_2024_al-Mawasi_attack

 

[xxialac]

8 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

 

It’s getting tiresome going over and over the same point - I’m pretty sure everyone has condemned the “Kill your MP” comment, with the band itself apologising.

 

This issue is the double standard. As far as I’m aware, counter terrorism police weren’t called in for Tory donor Frank Hester when he claimed black MP Diane Abbott, “should be shot”.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Hester

It's a partial double standard . People say "deserves shooting" etc without literally meaning it in the same way they talk about 'knifing someone in the back". It was also in a private meeting plus it wasn't recorded.

 

Whereas Kneecap could be argued to be inciting violence in a very public forum.  And 'kill your local MP' doesn't really have any figurative meaning, does it?

 

I'm not defending Hester at all nor the media that is baying for blood and am also pro-Kneecap in this debate but think this ought to be said.  

[Skip997]

43 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

 I think it’s fair to say it raises valid questions about influence and agenda.

100% there is a comprehensive agenda at work here, emboldened by the use of the anti Semitic card. The whole “debate” has been twisted and to some extent stifled. What the “developed” Western nations are allowing to happen in Gaza due to the fear of being seen as either anti Semitic or pro “terrorism” is nothing short of disgusting: 

[Skip997]

32 minutes ago, lazyred said:

 

Are you saying they were legitimate targets?

If women, children, doctors, aid workers etc are legitimate targets, which seems to be the case in the minds of the Israeli government…..

[Colorblindjames]

29 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Ok, so when they're shouting Up Hamas they don't actually mean Up Hamas, it's all to do with context and nuance. What they meant was Israeli are genocidal scumbags. Hope the counter terrorism police take this into context.

And when they say Kill your MP they didn't actually mean go and kill your MP, but that MPs are sh*t and we are cool like the IRA or something.

Yes context and nuance. As humans we deal with this every day. The legal process should always consider context and nuance. 
 

Seems like we are starting this debate all over. Kneecap could for example support the aims of Hamas but not some of the nastier stuff. That’s my own position. I don’t believe they should be a proscribed organisation if other groups including the IDF aren’t.
 

Growing up I understood why some people joined and supported the actions IRA. This view still exists in NI and will continue to exist among people who were harmed by the British armed forces. Context and nuance. 

 

If as a spurs fan say up spurs that doesn’t mean I support everyone at their club. I hate the owners for example. Context and nuance again.