UK Politics

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they'd forn coalitions with Reform/BNP/BritainFirst/Greens.

Would be a pretty diverse coalition of views. 

[steviewevie]

I am actually with Neil on this, kind of for PR but don't think it's the utopia panacea that people think it is.

[pink_triangle]

I would still support PR, but I think supporters of the smaller parties may become disillusioned. One advantage of FPTP for the smaller parties is being able to promise everything without ever having to deliver.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

True PR you get one vote and can vote for any party you want not just those that put candidates up in your constituancy - the vast majority of constituancies in the UK under FPTP are un democratic as you can only select form a few of the parties not all of them.

At our last council election we had Lib Dem, Tory and an Independant who was UKIP before.

Not much of a choice there and so not democratic at all.

ok, so you still have the one MP representing a constituency, or multiple?

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

Well this is disgusting. 

this got missed in all the PR noise...could be bad news for Badenoch...but she'll probably still become leader because she's anti-woke and wokeism is definitely the most important thing facing this country.

[Ozanne]

I've been thinking about what Nobody Interesting said yesterday and I wanted to apologise for how I have been at times in the  politics threads. I am genuinely sorry if I have ever bullied anyone. Whilst the topics can lead to heated discussion I will try my best to improve and not to get personal in the future. Sorry again everyone.

[kaosmark2]

I find it crazy how people talk about how dangerous coalitions are, when in fact the Tory and Labour parties are in themselves coalitions of a huge range of views, so they can govern in FPTP.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

This is the weirdest argument out there. Across Europe, right wing populist parties have governed in coalition with other right wing parties, and yet it is the UK, with its allegedly extremist proof system which has left the eu, puts refugees on planes to rwanda, turns a blind eye to Russian money funding one of the major parties, and from the ppe scandal to the teesside freeport deal- allows corruption and cronyism to run rife at every level of government.

Its a bizarre argument and speaks of the self obsession of brits. Absolutely clueless as to what actually happens outside of that sh*tty little bubble.

Even without a coalition ukip is wagging the Tory dog l which is why much of what you list has happened. Same and more would happen with pr for the same reason as it happens now. Ukip and their views have voters support.

[fraybentos1]

13 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I find it crazy how people talk about how dangerous coalitions are, when in fact the Tory and Labour parties are in themselves coalitions of a huge range of views, so they can govern in FPTP.

It’s always the tories that bang on about stable governments etc then they went running to the DUP in 2017 to keep them in power.

up here in Scotland there’s only been one majority ever so every gov has been a collation or minority gov or something inbetween. No gov has even collapsed and there’s never had to be an early election 

[kaosmark2]

20 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It’s always the tories that bang on about stable governments etc then they went running to the DUP in 2017 to keep them in power.

up here in Scotland there’s only been one majority ever so every gov has been a collation or minority gov or something inbetween. No gov has even collapsed and there’s never had to be an early election 

Yeah exactly. And on top of that, the Tories are the ones that most typically are fighting to placate their own rebels.

I think there's just a lot of crazy short-termist thinking when it comes to opposing electoral reform. If we get the correct system, it should actually stop the alternation of red/blue clicking the undo button on what the other did.

[Neil]

24 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It’s always the tories that bang on about stable governments etc then they went running to the DUP in 2017 to keep them in power.

up here in Scotland there’s only been one majority ever so every gov has been a collation or minority gov or something inbetween. No gov has even collapsed and there’s never had to be an early election 

Greens in Govt hasn't lead to lots of good green policies. And the coalitions have made Scots feel badly govered.perhaps thats just Scots governing scots.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

ok, so you still have the one MP representing a constituency, or multiple?

Under pure PR you do not have constituancies but there is nothing to stop parties winning and losing in having offices in local areas to offer the clincs they do now - most people would not notice not having  aconstituancy MP, especially those who have the government one as they are just copy and paste of policy people

[mattiloy]

51 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I find it crazy how people talk about how dangerous coalitions are, when in fact the Tory and Labour parties are in themselves coalitions of a huge range of views, so they can govern in FPTP.

Exactly. Cameron had the backing of less than half of tory MPs for the gay marriage bill. 

The current tory minister for women’s health is vocally anti abortion.

Lee Anderson, until recently the tory vice chair, is an advocate for reinstituting the death penalty and called for migrants to ’f**k off back to France’.

[Nobody Interesting]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

they'd forn coalitions with Reform/BNP/BritainFirst/Greens.

Why have you included Greens in that list of far right racist parties?

[mattiloy]

14 minutes ago, Neil said:

Greens in Govt hasn't lead to lots of good green policies. And the coalitions have made Scots feel badly govered.perhaps thats just Scots governing scots.

Why do you hate scottish people so much? Seems personal. Have you been spurned by a lover who had it away with a big scotts porridge oats type fella?

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Why do you hate scottish people so much? Seems personal. Have you been spurned by a lover who had it away with a big scotts porridge oats type fella?

The Greens in Scotland though part of government can do little of what they want as Westminster still controls the large parts they want to do - so to say it does not work based on part devolved powers is to simply try and find reasons why we should never do it.
Same in Wales, part of government but with very few powers to make any changes.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Why have you included Greens in that list of far right racist parties?

For the lols and trolls...and the eco facsists.

[fraybentos1]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

Greens in Govt hasn't lead to lots of good green policies. And the coalitions have made Scots feel badly govered.perhaps thats just Scots governing scots.

that’s irrelevant to the point I was making 

there was 2 lab lib coalitions between 99 and 07 too and my point was about stability of gov in PR systems 

[fraybentos1]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

Greens in Govt hasn't lead to lots of good green policies. And the coalitions have made Scots feel badly govered.

I don’t think you have the faintest idea about what policies are being implanted up here 

you get your info from wings over Scotland Neil, a mad man and fringe commentator 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

Why do you hate scottish people so much? Seems personal. Have you been spurned by a lover who had it away with a big scotts porridge oats type fella?

 don't hate scots i just hate the indie thing its as tarntan toryism, and as  intellectually solid as trumpism, or kipperism, I'm against stupid politics wherever it isand whoever its by

[Neil]

39 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

that’s irrelevant to the point I was making 

there was 2 lab lib coalitions between 99 and 07 too and my point was about stability of gov in PR systems 

ok, and the point of pr, if it leads to good govt, why isn't it working in scotland???

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

For the lols and trolls...and the eco facsists.

they're quite an aythoritan party, happy to take tax avoided money.

[stuie]

6 hours ago, Neil said:

Lots of people using illness for early retirement.

It’s almost like there’s a certain age where people tend to get sick and can’t work anymore - something that can’t be decided by governments changing their policies to suit.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

It’s almost like there’s a certain age where people tend to get sick and can’t work anymore - something that can’t be decided by governments changing their policies to suit.

its almost like i know these situations myself, wasn't a problem with previous generations - grafters at all ages.

[stuie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

its almost like i know these situations myself, wasn't a problem with previous generations - grafters at all ages.

But when you increase the pension age, more people are going to fall ill and end up in that bracket of too sick to work, too young to retire.