news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Here’s the kicker. I don’t think they can. The Labour Party is straggling two sides that want different things. The tories have one unified vision and direction.

I’ve definitely underestimated Boris Johnson. Much of the voting is based more on the doorstep than I thought. People feel that Boris is more competent of a leader and gets things done. They like that he’s rough around the edges but they have visible evidence in front of them that he delivers.

Moderate Labour voters switching to Tory speaks volumes. Boris is the epitome of what I imagine moderate labour would despise - he’s as bullingdon, toff, and posh as they come. Moderate Labour voting Tory is because people are willing to see past it because ... shock to me... people see him as competent. 

I don’t think people are holding their nose and voting for Boris anymore. I think people believe in him.

also...Johnson's tories won big in 2019, and with the success of the vaccines they were expected to do well, but maybe not as well as they did in Hartlepool. Basically they're mopping up all the ukip and brexit party votes.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Tories and Labour will fight on investment and social infrastructure I believe. The tories were rolling out a ‘levelling up’ plan for across the country. I believe the future of debate between the two will be about resources and what the tories invest in. (Barring no supervening event like COVID coming around).

If the tories deliver their levelling up plan to places like the red wall / especially Hartlepool... Labour are truly fucked. As you say Labour will have nothing on the tories if the tories actually introduce measures to revitalise social infrastructure.

yeah, well big if with the levelling up thing. 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Tories and Labour will fight on investment and social infrastructure I believe. The tories were rolling out a ‘levelling up’ plan for across the country. I believe the future of debate between the two will be about resources and what the tories invest in. (Barring no supervening event like COVID coming around).

If the tories deliver their levelling up plan to places like the red wall / especially Hartlepool... Labour are truly fucked. As you say Labour will have nothing on the tories if the tories actually introduce measures to revitalise social infrastructure.

I guess tories are hoping that freeports will bring jobs and wealth to certain areas.

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I guess tories are hoping that freeports will bring jobs and wealth to certain areas.

Yes and it’s a very smart idea if I’m honest. Labour will have to hold them to account if it doesn’t work. If it does work then god, labour are toast.

It really feels like someone (probably Cummings) has studied the Labour Party and worked out a rigid strategy to hit them where it hurts. It does feel like the tories are actively introducing policies to try and kill them off.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Matt42 said:

Yes and it’s a very smart idea if I’m honest. Labour will have to hold them to account if it doesn’t work. If it does work then god, labour are toast.

It really feels like someone (probably Cummings) has studied the Labour Party and worked out a rigid strategy to hit them where it hurts. It does feel like the tories are actively introducing policies to try and kill them off.

we'll see. I think you are being too optimistic for the tories here.

[TheSheriff]

47 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it's funny...I don't know much about him really, but there were people on here and the shit thread saying that labour were going to get a kicking in these elections because of Drakeford's downbeat press briefings and decisions during the pandemic...but it seems to be he is actually very popular and is one of the main reasons for labour doing so well there.

That was me and I must say I’m very surprised, the feeling amongst friends and colleagues was that he was very much disliked.... But then again you could put a Labour rosette on a donkey in the South Wales Valleys and it would win.... The UKIP  vote disintegrating help Labour get to 30 and pick up seats in the regionals 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, TheSheriff said:

That was me and I must say I’m very surprised, the feeling amongst friends and colleagues was that he was very much disliked.... But then again you could put a Labour rosette on a donkey in the South Wales Valleys and it would win.... The UKIP  vote disintegrating help Labour get to 30 and pick up seats in the regionals 

yeah, big difference with England there...UKIP going to both tory and labour..whereas in England ukip/bxp voters are mostly going tory because I guess Boris is their w*nk rag.

[steviewevie]

So...labour are going to be fighting over the reasons for these election results and which way they should go....but they need to stop arguing before next election otherwise they're fucked. Those on the left who are upset that Starmer appears to be centrist, when he really isn't...need to have a look at Biden in the US. 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

Like to see them wooing Spain.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Like to see them wooing Spain.

aye, and germany,

Scandinavia maybe.

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Yes and it’s a very smart idea if I’m honest. Labour will have to hold them to account if it doesn’t work. If it does work then god, labour are toast.

It really feels like someone (probably Cummings) has studied the Labour Party and worked out a rigid strategy to hit them where it hurts. It does feel like the tories are actively introducing policies to try and kill them off.

Freeport's free of the protections of the laws of the country.something which existed within the EU not something we needed to leave the EU to achieve

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

aye, and germany,

Scandinavia maybe.

I'd like the SNP to say they want to be like the Scandinavian countries including the tax rates.

[steviewevie]

 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

aye, and germany,

Scandinavia maybe.

Germany has just shat on its regional settlement.

Edited May 8, 2021 by eFestivals

[steviewevie]

 

[Crazyfool01]

I do love this 🙂 

shame people voted for letting the bodies pile up .. what an odd world we live in !! 

[jimmillen]

Came across this just now, I have no idea about the author’s background but it’s one of the best analyses of Labour’s woes that I’ve read. 
 

https://softleft.substack.com/p/what-is-labour-for

[mattiloy]

42 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

So...labour are going to be fighting over the reasons for these election results and which way they should go....but they need to stop arguing before next election otherwise they're fucked. Those on the left who are upset that Starmer appears to be centrist, when he really isn't...need to have a look at Biden in the US. 

Biden didn’t kick Bernie Sanders out of the party. He also leveraged the campaigning power of the young left wing dems, the likes of AOC, and campaigned on a fairly leftwing (for the US) platform.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, mattiloy said:

Biden didn’t kick Bernie Sanders out of the party. He also leveraged the campaigning power of the young left wing dems, the likes of AOC, and campaigned on a fairly leftwing (for the US) platform.

and Starmer wouldn't have kicked Corbyn out if hadn't been for Corbyn's response to the findings of the EHRC report on antisemitism in the labour party..that is the crux of why those on the left can't stand Starmer, nothing to do with actual policies or beating the tories.

Biden didn't say anything about investing fuckknowshowmany trillions of dollars during his campaign did he? Infact what did he say, it was just a very old man talking about healing or something.

But before we descend into another Starmer vs Corbyn antisemitism row...yes Starmer needs to work with those on all sides of the party...they need to find some common ground,  work with it and stop the bitching.

[steviewevie]

 

[Matt42]

26 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I do love this 🙂 

shame people voted for letting the bodies pile up .. what an odd world we live in !! 

This sort of celebrity labour luvvie social media presence is actually damaging labour though!

[Matt42]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and Starmer wouldn't have kicked Corbyn out if hadn't been for Corbyn's response to the findings of the EHRC report on antisemitism in the labour party..that is the crux of why those on the left can't stand Starmer, nothing to do with actual policies or beating the tories.

Biden didn't say anything about investing fuckknowshowmany trillions of dollars during his campaign did he? Infact what did he say, it was just a very old man talking about healing or something.

But before we descend into another Starmer vs Corbyn antisemitism row...yes Starmer needs to work with those on all sides of the party...they need to find some common ground,  work with it and stop the bitching.

Blanket statement but the Democrats in the US are not like the Labour Party at all. The Democrats have a much wider voting base and are popular amongst a broad range of demographics.

Whilst the democrats struggle a bit in the American regions / rural areas- they have the backing of the major cities, the youth vote, the liberal ‘mature vote’ (like the Lib Dem’s here), progressive corporations, and university students, minority voters... list goes on. It’s a rather huge voting base.

Whilst Labour can take inspiration from Bidens infrastructure investment policies - they simply don’t have the same voting base as them. It won’t work like it has worked for the dems.

edit: labour need that rural working class community vote more than the dems do

Edited May 8, 2021 by Matt42

[topmarksbri]

 

[steviewevie]

Just now, Matt42 said:

Blanket statement but the Democrats in the US are not like the Labour Party at all. The Democrats have a much wider voting base and are popular amongst a broad range of demographics.

Whilst the democrats struggle a bit in the American regions / rural areas- they have the backing of the major cities, the youth vote, the liberal ‘mature vote’ (like the Lib Dem’s here), progressive corporations, and university students, minority voters... list goes on. It’s a rather huge voting base.

Whilst Labour can take inspiration from Bidens infrastructure investment policies - they simply don’t have the same voting base as them. It won’t work like it has worked for the dems.

yeah...sure....ok....but just saying that Biden was able to appeal to a wide range of the electorate...and labour need someone who can do the same...appeal to different types of voters in different parts of the country.

Also with that US election...a lot of it was anyone but Trump.