news & politics:discussion

[Ozanne]

 

[mattiloy]

8 hours ago, topmarksbri said:

Nah, because none of those things are funny. Isn't trump orange is such shit boomer humour facebook shite. When you have people who are so easily mockable for almost everything else if you're resorting to ad hominem it normally means you've run out of anything interesting or funny to say. 

Lollll. Maybe you're right, I mean Starmer is so easily mockable for everything else so yes, whilst he does have a big fat chin AND yes, whilst he also sounds like Brian Badonde - the real comedy element is that he is completely out of touch and utterly garbage at his job.

 

8 hours ago, topmarksbri said:

So by your own logic you're pro-tory and want a conservative government. Glad you're in a position to have such ideological purity but most of those who are in desperate need of a labour government aren't.

Labour in name only. Just using the brand. A Starmer government hardly looks discernible to a tory one at the moment. What a 2% rise for nurses instead of a 1%? Stop the press! So those in desperate need of a, I would say left wing government rather than a labour government, are going to be disappointed either way.
 

8 hours ago, topmarksbri said:

Ahaha wait so you're so virtuous that your feeling of the pang of injustice makes it so? You're the barometer of who is and isn't left wing? Fuck me when I said you were conceited a few pages ago I was understating it. 

I see, so its ad hominem is it? Okay well if I'm conceited, I'll say that your posts are those of a man trying very hard to appear smart but instead coming across as a bland, humourless dullard.

[DeanoL]

11 hours ago, topmarksbri said:

So by your own logic you're pro-tory and want a conservative government. Glad you're in a position to have such ideological purity but most of those who are in desperate need of a labour government aren't.

Well this is part of the problem - most people aren't entirely self-centred or entirely selfless. There's a balance. I *should* be voting Tory - own a home, me and partner both earn above the average wage... a Tory government benefit us.

A Corbyn government would have (tried to) tackle the root causes of inequality and make huge, sweeping changes to society. It would have cost me, personally. But it's a price I would pay as it would make us a genuinely better country all round. Or at least that's what it felt like.

At the moment a Starmer government sounds like it'll take some of my money and give it to you. You probably need it a lot more than I do, and it would probably be fair. But I certainly don't feel good voting for that. Especially knowing that it won't actually solve the issues that have caused the inequality in the first place.

Now, maybe that makes me an arsehole, sure. But people like me exist, there are quite a few of us, I know many of my friends are in a similar place and feel similarly. And we won't actually vote Tory, but we might just vote Green or Lib Dem instead and kid ourselves that we're doing that to strengthen the case for electoral reform rather than to let the Tories in through the gap.

[efcfanwirral]

 

[Ozanne]

12 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

He’s right, hardly anyone seems to care about what the Tories get up to. They are playing politics on easy mode. 

[Haan]

21 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

completely agree with this, but maybe we can start by trialling Blair for his war crimes eh

[Haan]

Decent piece regarding socialist strategy, interested to see the more detailed articles in the coming days https://novaramedia.com/2021/03/12/introducing-how-we-win-a-socialist-strategy-for-the-2020s/ 

[Mark E. Spliff]

14 minutes ago, Haan said:

completely agree with this, but maybe we can start by trialling Blair for his war crimes eh

I was on the march against the second Gulf war, protest-voted Lib Dem in the following election and am no fan of Keir Starmer's 'throw socialism out of the window in a futile attempt to persuade the right wing oligarch media barons that he's their man' approach.

However, this is whataboutery of the highest order.  Blair's war crimes are Blair's war crimes.  This is nothing to do with that and blunting any attack on the current Government's absolute corruption is simply doing the Tories' work for them.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Mark E. Spliff

[Haan]

1 minute ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

I was on the march against the second Gulf war, protest-voted Lib Dem in the following election and am no fan of Keir Starmer's 'throw socialism out of the window in a futile attempt to persuade the right wing oligarch media barons that he's their man' approach.

However, this is whataboutery of the highest order.  Blair's war crimes are Blair's war crimes.  This is nothing to do with that and blunting any attack on the current Government's absolute corruption is simply doing the Tories' work for them.

I guess the only connection I am making (I should've specified really), is that if nothing happened to Blair, I don't see how anything will happen to the Tories. You could argue the precedent of politicians getting away with breaking the law and lying was set back then, and the Tories are ramping it up now. 

[Mark E. Spliff]

14 minutes ago, Haan said:

I guess the only connection I am making (I should've specified really), is that if nothing happened to Blair, I don't see how anything will happen to the Tories. You could argue the precedent of politicians getting away with breaking the law and lying was set back then, and the Tories are ramping it up now. 

I agree with the point you were making - nobody is going to hold the Tories to account for what they're doing, just like nobody held Blair/Bush to account for their mass murder.  However, what we're up against is a moronic electorate who can't distinguish between social media bullshit and consistent logical analysis of facts and history.  Whenever the Tories are on the ropes, the moron commentators in your local news website will immediately switch to whataboutery-mode to avoid even acknowledging that the Tories might be in any way flawed, and 'Bliar' etc. is one of their go-to mantras.  If we're going to join in with that, then we might as well give up.

It's the same with climate change.  The debate just becomes a whataboutery event, with the deniers simply pointing out the occasion when a climate scientist did something hypocritical.  That's entirely irrelevant to the science of climate change, but when you're dealing with an electorate of morons, it's sufficient to completely derail the debate.

[maelzoid]

1 hour ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

However, this is whataboutery of the highest order.  Blair's war crimes are Blair's war crimes.  This is nothing to do with that and blunting any attack on the current Government's absolute corruption is simply doing the Tories' work for them.

I was going to chime in here, but you've done the typing for me. Hard agree.

I would also note that the current situation with the tories, is just that, current, and a matter of some urgency. Any hastening of reckoning they face will be beneficial. I sincerely wish Blair did face justice for his crimes, but even if he did, it wouldn't undo what happened.

[steviewevie]

Still going to vote for Meghan.

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[maelzoid]

50 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Still going to vote for Meghan.

 

Interesting that today two of the tabloids labelled Meghan’s words as a slur, yet every time prince Philip actually uses racial slurs, they’re referred to as gaffes.

And Prince William saying they are not a racist family is laughable. I appreciate that not everyone in the family is a racist, but not everyone isn’t either.

[efcfanwirral]

Soviet style propaganda here "bring wealth to every corner of our nation"

Yep at the expense of our food and environmental standards and the NHS. Biden isn't trump, but he's the "old school" US which we'd do well to remember are not benevolent 

Edited March 12, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Soviet style propaganda here "bring wealth to every corner of our nation"

Yep at the expense of our food and environmental standards and the NHS. Biden isn't trump, but he's the "old school" US which we'd do well to remember are not benevolent 

Brexit is fucked...but we've got this bollocks (any US trade deal won't get anywhere near what we had with EU), plus all the vaccine nationalism stuff thrown in there, and relations with our closest neighbours are going to be fraught for a long time.

[steviewevie]

 

[Ryan1984]

9 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Brexit is fucked...but we've got this bollocks (any US trade deal won't get anywhere near what we had with EU), plus all the vaccine nationalism stuff thrown in there, and relations with our closest neighbours are going to be fraught for a long time.

What I don’t understand - and we all know about the negatives of Brexit - is how all these trade deals with countries further away fit into Boris’s ‘better for the environment’ approach. Surely further away means more waste/carbon footprint etc?

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ryan1984 said:

What I don’t understand - and we all know about the negatives of Brexit - is how all these trade deals with countries further away fit into Boris’s ‘better for the environment’ approach. Surely further away means more waste/carbon footprint etc?

yeah...geography is a thing they're trying to ignore...pretending we're in the pacific is not the same as being in the single market.

[Ozanne]

 

 

[SwedgeAntilles]

22 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

She can write like fuck.

[steviewevie]

55 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

She can write like fuck.

she really can

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]