Deaf Nobby Burton Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 2 hours ago, hfuhruhurr said: I wasn't going to reply, but false dilemmas really wind me up. We are currently experiencing a fabulous awakening for many people who haven't realised that their everyday unconscious bias* has a cumulative negative impact on black people's lives. Right now, at this point, it's time to examine our own behaviours and actions and biases and consciously do better. That's the thought process that needs to be focused on. Not to create any comparisons or oh what about xyz, they are completely separate issues and by conflating them your thought process and those you influence with these comparisons become polluted and corrupted, and you become part of the problem. *I use bias. I am, we all are bias, some are outright racist, but we are all bias - it's what we've absorbed over the years, there's no avoiding it. Accept that you are and fight it every moment of every day - no more of this status quo. Whataboutery, drives me nuts. I attempt to be vegan but aren’t fully. My friends delight in shooting me down on minor technicalities, ignoring the overall good it does and enabling them to feel vindicated in ignoring that good. I have to admit these statues and what they stand for has never occurred to me, and that ignorance has naturally been a contributor to the situation. Now we’re all aware of it shouldn’t be ignored because other bad things happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Tease Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 hours ago, babyblade41 said: what about those in receipt of this money as so many POC have benefited from the scholarships at Oriel college . I'm trying to understand why the taking down of statues helps the cause. Take the one outside the BBC of a paedophile Imagine if Rhodes was a prolific paedophile who raped 10,000 children and made a great fortune from his child pornography empire, then gave some of his wealth to charity. Would you be in favour of keeping his statue up? Would you be outraged of some survivors of sexual abuse pulled it down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Tease Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 5 hours ago, babyblade41 said: My daughter investigates some of these criminals so you can't hide away from it . My GS is mixed race Afro Caribbean ,16 years old and along with his other Nan don't condone any of this BLM protests so why do some POC agree and many don't ? I'm not sure what you're asking here? Is it Why do different people have different opinions? It's like saying Why do some white people support BLM and some don't? Why do some white people support bird charities and some don't? Er, because different people have different opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyblade41 Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 Just now, Mr.Tease said: Imagine if Rhodes was a prolific paedophile who raped 10,000 children and made a great fortune from his child pornography empire, then gave some of his wealth to charity. Would you be in favour of keeping his statue up? Would you be outraged of some survivors of sexual abuse pulled it down? The statue above the BBC is by a paedophile and that is still up and not on the hit list..where do you draw the line ..should Mosques be removed ? I'm trying to see where one line starts and another ends , My GS other nan would never accept anyone taking the knee for her, she works hard in the community bringing kids from impoverished backgrounds together , I don't think you can cherry pick what parts apply and as the statues belong to a wider audience then surely it should be a democratic process of what happens to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedgeAntilles Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 Wtf have mosques got to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCK Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 Maybe removing the statues and having them placed in a museum would be a decent compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyblade41 Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said: I'm not sure what you're asking here? Is it Why do different people have different opinions? It's like saying Why do some white people support BLM and some don't? Why do some white people support bird charities and some don't? Er, because different people have different opinions absolutely, so why can't everyone accept differences of opinion . No one had done anything up until a couple of weeks ago so why now.? The division this has caused between communities seems to be doing more harm than good IMO especially when some will latch onto anything to have an excuse be that black or white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Tease Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 5 hours ago, babyblade41 said: The other point is that my home town has prolific cases of child grooming gangs and no one ever speaks up about these poor girls and the horrendous acts committed against them I work with survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Most of it is done by family members or family friends. Why does no one ever speak up against this? Why is it whenever this is mentioned, the same people who are all against grooming gangs just go silent and never mention it again? Why are they only outraged when it's gangs? Genuine question, I just find it weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyblade41 Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said: Wtf have mosques got to do with it? Islam was established by a slave trader Mohammad was a slave trader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Tease Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, babyblade41 said: absolutely, so why can't everyone accept differences of opinion . No one had done anything up until a couple of weeks ago so why now.? The division this has caused between communities seems to be doing more harm than good IMO especially when some will latch onto anything to have an excuse be that black or white Why can't you just accept BLM protesters have a different opinion then? Why are you posting about it? Sounds like you're stoking divisions to me- if you just accepted the pulling down of the statue, everything would be fine😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyblade41 Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Mr.Tease said: Why can't you just accept BLM protesters have a different opinion then? Why are you posting about it? Sounds like you're stoking divisions to me- if you just accepted the pulling down of the statue, everything would be fine😉 I won't accept it as it was done un lawfully , if it was done under a democratic process then that would be different I also feel especially on this subject here if it's not the opinion of the majority then your opinion is not valid . It wasn't me who posted this topic in the first place so to comment must it be only if you agree with it ? Edited June 10, 2020 by babyblade41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Tease Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 minute ago, babyblade41 said: I won't accept it as it was done un lawfully , if it was done under a democratic process then that would be different I'm afraid you're just stoking up divisions here, you just need to accept it's happened and move on, everything will be fine then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyblade41 Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 I find that a lot on here it's one view point only , I'm not sure why a decent debate can't be had but I suppose that's what happens when you preach to the converted . It's a very myopic viewpoint and not the view point of a lot of black people either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 hours ago, zahidf said: BLM MONSTERS Damn, when I walked down Colston Road yesterday, I was planning to go back with a bulldozer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 25 minutes ago, babyblade41 said: absolutely, so why can't everyone accept differences of opinion . Do you know anyone with the different opinion, of slavers being people worthy of public veneration? I don't think I've ever met anyone with that opinion. Today is not 1895 or even 1985. 25 minutes ago, babyblade41 said: No one had done anything up until a couple of weeks ago so why now.? That's bull. There's been a campaign in Bristol for well over 20 years. Ignore the poor reporting, the rename of Colston Hall was announced several years ago (the new name was due to be announced in April but postponed because of covid). Two years ago Colston Primary School was renamed. There's also been constant attempts to have something done about the statue. Etc, etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, babyblade41 said: I won't accept it as it was done un lawfully , if it was done under a democratic process then that would be different the democratic process is stacked full of people like you, who want everything to stay the same. If Bristol hadn't rioted in 1831 you would have no vote, no possessions and your husband would have the right to rape you. Sometimes more extreme action is necessary to move things forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 32 minutes ago, babyblade41 said: I find that a lot on here it's one view point only , I'm not sure why a decent debate can't be had but I suppose that's what happens when you preach to the converted . It's a very myopic viewpoint and not the view point of a lot of black people either That "one view point" is the majority view. I thought you approved of democracy? I guarantee that if Bristol had been given a vote on the statue the result would have been to pull it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcatley Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 The fact that a lot of people in this country seem more outraged about a statue being pulled down rather than the reasons behind the protests says a lot on why it’s so important these protests continue. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparx Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Jcatley said: The fact that a lot of people in this country seem more outraged about a statue being pulled down rather than the reasons behind the protests says a lot on why it’s so important these protests continue. Spot. Fucking. On. And christ - the statue came down days ago. Get over it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyoung Posted June 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 49 minutes ago, babyblade41 said: I won't accept it as it was done un lawfully , if it was done under a democratic process then that would be different. Black people are being unlawfully killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Tease Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Neil said: the democratic process is stacked full of people like you, who want everything to stay the same. If Bristol hadn't rioted in 1831 you would have no vote, no possessions and your husband would have the right to rape you. Sometimes more extreme action is necessary to move things forward. Yep, think this tweet summed it up nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copperface Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, jyoung said: Black people are being unlawfully killed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom#2010s_and_2020s Which of those in the 2010s and 2020s were unlawful and and backs up your claim? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyoung Posted June 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Copperface said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom#2010s_and_2020s Which of those in the 2010s and 2020s were unlawful and and backs up your claim? That reply stinks. You know full well what I am referring to and you know full well why there are protests. I'm aware it was in the USA. Everybody is. During every black persons lifetime, throughout history, they have been treated as the inferior race. But I suspect that really you actually already know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahidf Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, jyoung said: That reply stinks. You know full well what I am referring to and you know full well why there are protests. I'm aware it was in the USA. Everybody is. During every black persons lifetime, throughout history, they have been treated as the inferior race. But I suspect that really you actually already know that. Yup. Also, no policeman has ever been convicted of a death in custody. And black people are 5 times more likely to have been stopped under the anti covid laws... Even boris has stopped saying there isnt racism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copperface Posted June 10, 2020 Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, zahidf said: Yup. Also, no policeman has ever been convicted of a death in custody. And black people are 5 times more likely to have been stopped under the anti covid laws... Even boris has stopped saying there isnt racism Who stated there was no racism? It is endemic in society, societal structures, institutions, norms and views and the demographics that result from that. What is happening at this time is a welcome step forward with much further to go. Maybe the right targets for such opprobrium need to be considered. Your points re deaths following police contact or, as you put it, in custody, maybe proves a point in itself. Not sure what you mean by 'stopped under the anti covid laws'. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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