When will this shit end?

[Ayrshire Chris]

22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-china-cases-deaths-who-wet-market-wuhan-a9462286.html

Madness allowing these markets to open unchecked. Of course it would need a change in culture and more importantly these countries to share their wealth more evenly amongst their populations so alternative safe foods are available.  Having said that I’ve never been to their countries and know little about these markets apart from what I’ve read in our papers etc 

[fatyeti24]

1 hour ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

The WHO have to be in bed with China. They put pressure on them to not call it a global Pandemic for as long as possible and they seemingly obliged. Also seemed happy to believe what they said about human transmission not being possible as well. 

From the current Private Eye.:

[Gilb]

Just now, Ayrshire Chris said:

Madness allowing these markets to open unchecked. Of course it would need a change in culture and more importantly these countries to share their wealth more evenly amongst their populations so alternative safe foods are available.  Having said that I’ve never been to their countries and know little about these markets apart from what I’ve read in our papers etc 

Apparently they (China) shut down the wet markets after SARS but the practice just went underground/black market.

Interesting article on the history here. Snippet below:

A permanent shutdown of “wet markets” would affect patterns of food consumption in ways that are unknowable but potentially harmful to public health. It would deprive Chinese consumers of a food sector that accounts for 30-59% of their food supplies. Due to the large number of farmers, traders and consumers involved, the abolition of “wet markets” is also likely to lead to an explosion of an uncontrollable black market, as it did when such a ban was attempted in 2003, in response to SARS, as well as in 2013-14, in response to avian influenza H7N9.

This would involve enormously greater risk to public and global health than the legal and regulated live animal markets in China today. And live poultry and animal markets have long served as a crucial “early warning” site for viral surveillance, including in the United States.

What “wet markets” in China require is more scientific and evidence-based regulation, rather than being abolished and driven underground.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

12 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

From the current Private Eye.:

Scandalous really, when you’re talking about people’s health. No surprise really, if you’ve seen documentaries like What the the health, though. Government quangos and charities for things like cancer and heart disease actually bank rolled and encouraged to promote their products by the very industries that cause them. This is just that on a much larger scale. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

19 minutes ago, Gilb said:

Apparently they (China) shut down the wet markets after SARS but the practice just went underground/black market.

I am always wary of criticising practices in other countries especially when I’ve very limited knowledge of them. The onus is on their governments to regulate and police them properly and put public health before traditional practices. 

[steviewevie]

https://www.hsj.co.uk/service-design/exclusive-nightingale-largely-empty-as-icus-handle-surge/7027398.article

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

4 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

I am always wary of criticising practices in other countries especially when I’ve very limited knowledge of them. The onus is on their governments to regulate and police them properly and put public health before traditional practices. 

Pangolins, they most likely conduit between bats and humans for Covid are already illegal to hunt and eat in China, yet it clearly still happens. I’m not sure if it’s illegal to eat Civets, the cause of SARS, but I know they were all rounded up from the markets and destroyed at the time.

For a supposedly compliant population, it doesn’t seem like the government are doing a good enough job of bringing about the necessary cultural change to prevent them eating these wild animals.

[Smeble]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

As I’ve said before economics will resolve the lockdown, not us getting a grip on the disease. 
at some point we will have to, on a global level, put the economy, people jobs and ability to feed themselves above the needs of the vulnerable. 

[steviewevie]

Lockdowns are there to prevent health services being overwhelmed and to keep the number dying in the 10s of thousands instead of the 100s of thousands. The hope is that any economic downturn will be temporary.

[mattiloy]

Ere, a test showed 15% of pregnant women going in for delivery in nyc had contracted the virus with around 85% asymptomatic.

I think new york and the uk are at a fairly similar point in their progress. Whilst still I'd be hesitant to extrapolate both asymptomatic and prevalence rates: Pregnant women have boosted immune systems, higher white blood cell counts so presumably a better chance of being asymptomatic and those close to delivery presumably have more regular medical contact (even before testing) which would expose them to the the virus more. 

However, if these figures are even half near to replicated on a larger scale it means the virus is quite far along in spread and much less deadly than we reckon. And whilst 60% is touted as the herd immunity figure, the % needed to reduce the growth rate to a level where the next peaks are small enough as to not overwhelm the health system is much smaller. Opening the economy to those not at risk accelerates the advance to that point without too much effect on healthcare demand and I suspect that is what happens next.

It will be over before you know it. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

1 minute ago, mattiloy said:

Ere, a test showed 15% of pregnant women going in for delivery in nyc had contracted the virus with around 85% asymptomatic.

I think new york and the uk are at a fairly similar point in their progress. Whilst still I'd be hesitant to extrapolate both asymptomatic and prevalence rates: Pregnant women have boosted immune systems, higher white blood cell counts so presumably a better chance of being asymptomatic and those close to delivery presumably have more regular medical contact (even before testing) which would expose them to the the virus more. 

However, if these figures are even half near to replicated on a larger scale it means the virus is quite far along in spread and much less deadly than we reckon. And whilst 60% is touted as the herd immunity figure, the % needed to reduce the growth rate to a level where the next peaks are small enough as to not overwhelm the health system is much smaller. Opening the economy to those not at risk accelerates the advance to that point without too much effect on healthcare demand and I suspect that is what happens next.

It will be over before you know it. 

Germany did a similar study a few days back (not in pregnant woman) and found roughly the same thing:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.techtimes.com/amp/articles/248720/20200410/coronavirus-nearly-15-europeans-now-immune-in-covid-19.htm

[Crazyfool01]

out of interest ive seen other countries performing some kind of street cleaning efforts with tankers etc ... presumably with soap ... its not something ive seen here ... is it ineffective or just something our government have decided against doing for any other reason ? 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

6 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

out of interest ive seen other countries performing some kind of street cleaning efforts with tankers etc ... presumably with soap ... its not something ive seen here ... is it ineffective or just something our government have decided against doing for any other reason ? 

Was discussing this with a friend, I think it’s got to be more for show more than anything? How much can the virus be hanging around on streets and pavements, and how much can people actually catch it from them? I think it’s just something that maybe looks impressive on TV, and possibly makes a population feel a bit more comfortable when it appears their government are doing everything. I’d imagine the cost vs benefit is not even close to worth it.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Was discussing this with a friend, I think it’s got to be more for show more than anything? How much can the virus be hanging around on streets and pavements, and how much can people actually catch it from them? I think it’s just something that maybe looks impressive on TV, and possibly makes a population feel a bit more comfortable when it appears their government are doing everything. I’d imagine the cost vs benefit is not even close to worth it.

yep although im not sure in the scheme of things detergent and water would be massively expensive ... its the same concept with my online food delivery ... i should be washing it but its impossible not to be transferring it about to other surfaces ... of course I wash my hands .... but as soon as they wash down a bench theres a chance of an infected person using it I guess 

Edited April 14, 2020 by crazyfool1

[steviewevie]

S Korea were doing a lot of this street cleaning, disinfecting everything, but then they just threw everything at it and pretty much have had it beat.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

yep although im not sure in the scheme of things detergent and water would be massively expensive ... its the same concept with my online food delivery ... i should be washing it but its impossible not to be transferring it about to other surfaces ... of course I wash my hands .... but as soon as they wash down a bench theres a chance of an infected person using it I guess 

I suppose if the virus can be spread via breathing, then you’d have it landing on pavements. But people would only then pick it up on the soles of their shoes, so even then it wouldn’t be a huge risk. I know the princess cruise ship showed it could survive for up to 17days, but that would’ve been inside at ambient temps and in sympathetic surfaces. I can’t imagine being exposed to the elements on a pavement is particularly conducive for virus surviving for too long, but I could be completely wrong. Either way the shear amount of streets and pavements you’d have to spray to gain any benefit would be mid boggleing.

[Fighter]

2 hours ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

The WHO have to be in bed with China. They put pressure on them to not call it a global Pandemic for as long as possible and they seemingly obliged. Also seemed happy to believe what they said about human transmission not being possible as well. 

Yes, WHO were initially in cahoots with China to try and cover up the Wuhan outbreak

[steviewevie]

17 minutes ago, Fighter said:

Yes, WHO were initially in cahoots with China to try and cover up the Wuhan outbreak

were they?

[Breeze]

18 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

were they?

I think WHO have questions to answer about how they took info from Chinese as sacrosanct without doing their own due diligence. Don't think there is any evidence of collusion (yet.)

In particular they took the fact there was no evidence of human to human transmission as accurate. There are probably lessons to be learned to assume H2H transmission in case of a novel viral respiratory condition until you prove there is no H2H transmission.

[steviewevie]

Maybe WHO and China are both in on this 5G coronavirus transmission too?

[gizmoman]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Maybe WHO and China are both in on this 5G coronavirus transmission too?

5G doesn't transmit coronavirus. It could however have effects on the body including reducing the immune system thus enabling the virus to be more potent.

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

5G doesn't transmit coronavirus. It could however have effects on the body including reducing the immune system thus enabling the virus to be more potent.

Lol no it doesnt

[gizmoman]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Lol no it doesnt

And you know this because?

You might have noticed I used the word "could" it's a theoretical effect and you are unlikely to see it proven one way or the other because very little research is being done on the effect of electomagnetic waves on the human body, the research that has been done by independent scientists suggests there may be health risks.

Since most people dismiss any suggestion of this as crackpot tin foil nonsense i'll just leave you with this,

https://www.brusselstimes.com/brussels/55052/radiation-concerns-halt-brussels-5g-for-now/

Wonder if there's any particular reason Brussels didn't want 5G? There's nothing special about Brussels is there?

[zahidf]

9 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

And you know this because?

You might have noticed I used the word "could" it's a theoretical effect and you are unlikely to see it proven one way or the other because very little research is being done on the effect of electomagnetic waves on the human body, the research that has been done by independent scientists suggests there may be health risks.

Since most people dismiss any suggestion of this as crackpot tin foil nonsense i'll just leave you with this,

https://www.brusselstimes.com/brussels/55052/radiation-concerns-halt-brussels-5g-for-now/

Wonder if there's any particular reason Brussels didn't want 5G? There's nothing special about Brussels is there?

Lol ok. I was thinking there was a reason I couldn't find tin foil in the shops.

[steviewevie]

Apprently speaking on a 5G phone for too long makes your head blow up.