When will this shit end?

[Homer]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Jeez. 

They hit this point about two weeks ago in Wales.

[Homer]

Well, credit where it's due, most of the Brexiteers do seem to like Johnson's deal by the look of it.

[topmarksbri]

Starmer really needs Brexit to just go away, it's such a minefield for Labour. I imagine he's gambling that winning back the red wall is more important than pleasing southern remainers who would likely either vote for Labour anyway or have proved they won't vote for Labour no matter what. Perversely having some Labour voters switching to Lib Dem might actually help Labour in the next election. 

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, Homer said:

Well, credit where it's due, most of the Brexiteers do seem to like Johnson's deal by the look of it.

bet they'll be moaning about it in a few years....

[Ozanne]

Another part is that Labour have backed the government over their Lockdown measures and hardly anyone skates Labour for the shambles that has been our response to the virus. So in theory the same could happen here. 

[rivalschools.price]

Whatever rules are put in place, the main thing is that they need to be enforced.

For example, no one is supposed to leave London or Kent but there are still trains and coaches running from these places to all parts of the UK.

I understand that there is not enough resources to police everything but surely the trains shouldn’t even have been running.

Edited December 29, 2020 by rivalschools.price

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, topmarksbri said:

Starmer really needs Brexit to just go away, it's such a minefield for Labour. I imagine he's gambling that winning back the red wall is more important than pleasing southern remainers who would likely either vote for Labour anyway or have proved they won't vote for Labour no matter what. Perversely having some Labour voters switching to Lib Dem might actually help Labour in the next election. 

there are some northern remainers too you know...and shit loads of southern leavers (who wouldn't vote labour ever to be fair)

[Zoo Music Girl]

53 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

The French and Spain curfews were just banning mixing after those times though right? You could still go outside for a walk. We already ban household mixing in tier 2 or higher anyway?

Yeah this is what I don't get about curfews. If it's already against the rules to be in other households then I can't see how adding a curfew makes much difference, unless they police it somehow. It would be pretty unfair for shift workers and insomniacs who might like to walk during the night or whatever.

They might limit the exercise outdoors again but I think the consensus is that wouldn't make much difference. It's winter and I don't think that many people are spending hours and hours outdoors anyway. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

52 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Turns out not. Can only go out to walk the dog. Which frankly I think is ridiculous. Like a pets mental health matters more than a person’s ffs.

Probably to avoid people's houses  becoming full of dog shit.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah this is what I don't get about curfews. If it's already against the rules to be in other households then I can't see how adding a curfew makes much difference, unless they police it somehow. It would be pretty unfair for shift workers and insomniacs who might like to walk during the night or whatever.

They might limit the exercise outdoors again but I think the consensus is that wouldn't make much difference. It's winter and I don't think that many people are spending hours and hours outdoors anyway. 

curfews arent affected by work that is still allowed to happen where its essential .... curfews stop people going for a visit to a mates house in the evening as fewer people out and about makes enforcement easier .... its easy to show that you are going to work .... not so easy to show you are off to work when you are off to a mates house ..... 

[Billy Corgan's Ego]

2 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah this is what I don't get about curfews. If it's already against the rules to be in other households then I can't see how adding a curfew makes much difference, unless they police it somehow. It would be pretty unfair for shift workers and insomniacs who might like to walk during the night or whatever.

They might limit the exercise outdoors again but I think the consensus is that wouldn't make much difference. It's winter and I don't think that many people are spending hours and hours outdoors anyway. 

I am spending hours outdoors every day if it is dry. I need to for my sanity and mental health - I have a 3 year old who would be climbing the walls otherwise. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

curfews arent affected by work that is still allowed to happen where its essential .... curfews stop people going for a visit to a mates house in the evening as fewer people out and about makes enforcement easier .... its easy to show that you are going to work .... not so easy to show you are off to work when you are off to a mates house ..... 

Yes I meant people who work odd hours really rather than night shifts specifically. Basically just meant that not everyone can take a walk before 8pm for example.

 

[incident]

6 minutes ago, rivalschools.price said:

Whatever rules are put in place, the main thing is that they need to be enforced.

For example, no one is supposed to leave London or Kent but there are still trains and coaches running from these places to all parts of the UK.

I understand that there is not enough resources to police everything but surely the trains shouldn’t even have been running.

That's not exactly what the rules are - there's a list of "reasonable excuses" for leaving the area, including getting to work or for support/care reasons and that's why public transport is deliberately being kept running.

I guess that if Fred lives in Central London without a car but needs to attend to his mother in Leeds, it's better that he takes a train than hitchhiking up the M1.

[dotdash79]

14 minutes ago, topmarksbri said:

Starmer really needs Brexit to just go away, it's such a minefield for Labour. I imagine he's gambling that winning back the red wall is more important than pleasing southern remainers who would likely either vote for Labour anyway or have proved they won't vote for Labour no matter what. Perversely having some Labour voters switching to Lib Dem might actually help Labour in the next election. 

Hahahaha brexit is never going away, never. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 minute ago, Billy Corgan's Ego said:

I am spending hours outdoors every day if it is dry. I need to for my sanity and mental health - I have a 3 year old who would be climbing the walls otherwise. 

Then you do it but just not between the hours of 8pm and 05:00 or whatever the curfew is in place like in other countries. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, Billy Corgan's Ego said:

I am spending hours outdoors every day if it is dry. I need to for my sanity and mental health - I have a 3 year old who would be climbing the walls otherwise. 

Okay fair enough. But most people probably aren't for as long as they would in summer when there were loads sunbathing  etc.

I'm not suggesting it shouldn't be allowed anyway, I'm saying I don't see a good reason why they would limit it.

[incident]

1 minute ago, dotdash79 said:

Hahahaha brexit is never going away, never. 

If that's the case (and I suspect it might be), then the main reason is going to be because it's an ongoing shambles. In which case, the longer it goes the more the stink of it will be on the Tories (because a lot of the people who voted for it will end up conveniently forgetting which side they took).

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

5 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yeah this is what I don't get about curfews. If it's already against the rules to be in other households then I can't see how adding a curfew makes much difference, unless they police it somehow. It would be pretty unfair for shift workers and insomniacs who might like to walk during the night or whatever.

They might limit the exercise outdoors again but I think the consensus is that wouldn't make much difference. It's winter and I don't think that many people are spending hours and hours outdoors anyway. 

You should have less people on the streets. Makes policing it easier. 

In lockdown 1.0 the police around here were stopping people asking what they were doing. They kept stopping the volunteers recruited by the council until they bastardised some car parking permits and gave them to volunteers and essential staff who had reason to be in the road.

[Zoo Music Girl]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

curfews arent affected by work that is still allowed to happen where its essential .... curfews stop people going for a visit to a mates house in the evening as fewer people out and about makes enforcement easier .... its easy to show that you are going to work .... not so easy to show you are off to work when you are off to a mates house ..... 

Is it that easy to show you are going to work actually? Just wondering, I don't think it will be enforced. But I don't know how I would prove it as wouldn't be wearing a uniform or anything. I could have a pass with me but that doesn't really mean I'm going to work. They'd have to call the workplace or something.

As I say I don't think it will come to that anyway, just thinking out loud really!

[Homer]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

bet they'll be moaning about it in a few years....

I was trying to positive about Brexit. I'll be honest, my heart wasn't really in it.

To be fair, Johnson even fell out with his own withdrawal agreement.

I've got a theory that a lot of the people who voted for it's problems aren't actually caused by Brexit. And that they'll still carry on finding things to Be Pissed Off About even after we leave!

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Yes I meant people who work odd hours really rather than night shifts specifically. Basically just meant that not everyone can take a walk before 8pm for example.

 

in the scheme of things I dont think it would be very many .... or those that were might be able to adapt lifestyles slightly 

[Zoo Music Girl]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

You should have less people on the streets. Makes policing it easier. 

In lockdown 1.0 the police around here were stopping people asking what they were doing. They kept stopping the volunteers recruited by the council until they bastardised some car parking permits and gave them to volunteers and essential staff who had reason to be in the road.

We never saw any police stopping anyone round here (zone 2/3 London), but it seems to have varied a lot by area. Didn't see any police presence at all in lockdown 1, but I never walk more than 45 minutes away from my house really.

[Gingerfish79]

Johnson’s deal is a terrible deal, satisfying nobody but Torys. Hence, it will remain a political issue for years to come, and will certainly be a big focus of the next election. 
 

For decades, ‘Europe’ was always an issue that divided the Tory party. It was never really a Labour issue, who had a largely settled position. Brexit has completely reversed this with Labour now deeply divided and the Torys seemingly happy. This is hugely significant, especially for a Labour front bench about to vote in support of the deal. Supporting the deal only entrenches positions, and then when it goes wrong, and it will, Labour have nowhere to go and will have pissed off all sides. They must abstain, or offer their MPs a free vote. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Gingerfish79

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Is it that easy to show you are going to work actually? Just wondering, I don't think it will be enforced. But I don't know how I would prove it as wouldn't be wearing a uniform or anything. I could have a pass with me but that doesn't really mean I'm going to work. They'd have to call the workplace or something.

As I say I don't think it will come to that anyway, just thinking out loud really!

Its to out people of trying it on as much as anything - they aren't going to do a full investigation into weather your going to work or not but if you were a car full of 18 year olds with a 4 pack of hooch in the back they might ask a few more questions.

 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

Is it that easy to show you are going to work actually? Just wondering, I don't think it will be enforced. But I don't know how I would prove it as wouldn't be wearing a uniform or anything. I could have a pass with me but that doesn't really mean I'm going to work. They'd have to call the workplace or something.

As I say I don't think it will come to that anyway, just thinking out loud really!

yep they ring your workplace would be fairly easy ....I remember colleagues being stopped in lockdown 1 but cant remember the outcomes ... although we do wear a uniform ..... its fairly obvious once you give home address and workplace address ..... if you are 5 miles out your way then it might raise suspicion