When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I think we should ask more why restrictions should be in place, not why they should be removed

that's easy though, right? because cases are going up and not everyone immunised. Agree with school holidays though, seems a useful time to allow things to go a bit.

[Mr Boo]

2 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

can think of fewer places less likely to spread covid than a breezy beach.

Yep, fair point. 

[Crazyfool01]

Hopefully we might get some better weather and the euros ending might slow down the indoor mixing slightly … well at least the hugging !! 

[zahidf]

 

They also aren't using AstraZeneca and won't get Pfizer till Sept

 

What the hell are Japan playing at???

[kalifire]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

What the hell are Japan playing at???

Economic survival? Seems they’re out on a limb, over there. 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

They also aren't using AstraZeneca and won't get Pfizer till Sept

 

What the hell are Japan playing at???

well, they don't want the olympics for a start...but yeah, vaccine rollout has been really shit. My partner's family live in Japan and have not been vaccinated yet and don't seem that bothered about it either. I keep telling the missus to tell her mum to get vaccinated asap, the delta variant could well wreak havoc in that country..but...nah, not happening. At same time overall deaths in Japan has been a lot lower than here, so maybe there is less urgency.

[kalifire]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

This just is not true.  Maybe against injection but not against anything serious.  

Mass Infection will obviously lead to an increase in more serious reactions, you dense fool. It’s inarguable that waiting longer would lower avoidable hospitalisation and death. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by kalifire

[MrBarry465]

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/07/england-covid-reopening-plan-dangerous-experiment-ministers-told

 

Dr Jacky Davis, an NHS consultant radiologist, said: “In going for what looks like hybrid herd immunity, which was what this government went for in first place and then was slapped down, they are conducting a very dangerous experiment.

“We’re concerned about the future of young people and their education as it may be that it will have serious repercussions on their health going forward. It seems very dangerous when it could be stopped by something as minimal as wearing a mask and a degree of social distancing. The government has put all its eggs in the vaccine basket.”

  Edited July 7, 2021 by MrBarry465

[DeanoL]

51 minutes ago, Mr Boo said:

Also I don’t understand why the Government is continuing with the track and trace app, surely we will end up isolating every time we go to a cafe or a pub?

I'm convinced it's so when people stop using it or ignore the advice to isolate, it'll give them a cover reason to re-impose restrictions if they're needed without admitted they were wrong, they'll just blame the public for stopping using the app. There's no other reason to do it.

And if the predictions are wrong, and hospitalisations do start to go up more than expected, or the peak is further off that we thought, they will have to re-introduce restrictions. And they know that. They're betting on the same horse most of us are but they're also covering in case they're wrong.

[steviewevie]

Can argue about exit waves and hospitality and the like...but also have to factor in politics in this 19th July decision...

 

[tigger123]

10 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/07/england-covid-reopening-plan-dangerous-experiment-ministers-told

 

Dr Jacky Davis, an NHS consultant radiologist, said: “In going for what looks like hybrid herd immunity, which was what this government went for in first place and then was slapped down, they are conducting a very dangerous experiment.

“We’re concerned about the future of young people and their education as it may be that it will have serious repercussions on their health going forward. It seems very dangerous when it could be stopped by something as minimal as wearing a mask and a degree of social distancing. The government has put all its eggs in the vaccine basket.”

 

"Vaccines are our route out of this" is what Hancock said many months ago. What are the scientists so surprised about? This was always the plan, Delta variant or no variant.  The vaccines are also far more effective than we ever could have hoped for, so yes we are putting all our eggs in the vaccine basket cos they're bloody good! Variants were always inevitable given the number of Covid cases globally and guess what, they're always going to get more transmissible, as that's what they need to do to survive, especially with downward pressure from the vaccines. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

"Vaccines are our route out of this" is what Hancock said many months ago. What are the scientists so surprised about? This was always the plan, Delta variant or no variant.  The vaccines are also far more effective than we ever could have hoped for, so yes we are putting all our eggs in the vaccine basket cos they're bloody good! Variants were always inevitable given the number of Covid cases globally and guess what, they're always going to get more transmissible, as that's what they need to do to survive, especially with downward pressure from the vaccines. 

yeah...but at same time....the delta variant.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...but at same time....the delta variant.

You mean the Johnson variant?

[DeanoL]

13 minutes ago, MrBarry465 said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/07/england-covid-reopening-plan-dangerous-experiment-ministers-told

 

Dr Jacky Davis, an NHS consultant radiologist, said: “In going for what looks like hybrid herd immunity, which was what this government went for in first place and then was slapped down, they are conducting a very dangerous experiment.

“We’re concerned about the future of young people and their education as it may be that it will have serious repercussions on their health going forward. It seems very dangerous when it could be stopped by something as minimal as wearing a mask and a degree of social distancing. The government has put all its eggs in the vaccine basket.”

 

Except we can't control it with masks and a degree of social distancing because we're doing that now and it's growing fast. It's definitely an experiment but it was always going to be - someone was going to get people vaxxed and open up first.

(My position on this whole thing remains mixed: I still think it's fundamentally unfair that young people are having to take risks without having been fully vaccinated: it's not optional for many, many will be forced back to work - as those in hospitality have been already and I disagreed with that too - and can't feasibly choose to continue to limit their contacts. So I disagree on dropping restrictions on that basis, but from a scientific point of view I think the approach is broadly sensible.

From an economic point of view I think the mixed messages "don't wear a mask but wear a mask" are hugely damaging. Telling people it's dangerous enough you should consider wearing a mask, but not insisting other people wear masks, is the worse approach you can take for dealing with social hesitancy)

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Except we can't control it with masks and a degree of social distancing because we're doing that now and it's growing fast. It's definitely an experiment but it was always going to be - someone was going to get people vaxxed and open up first.

(My position on this whole thing remains mixed: I still think it's fundamentally unfair that young people are having to take risks without having been fully vaccinated: it's not optional for many, many will be forced back to work - as those in hospitality have been already and I disagreed with that too - and can't feasibly choose to continue to limit their contacts. So I disagree on dropping restrictions on that basis, but from a scientific point of view I think the approach is broadly sensible.

From an economic point of view I think the mixed messages "don't wear a mask but wear a mask" are hugely damaging. Telling people it's dangerous enough you should consider wearing a mask, but not insisting other people wear masks, is the worse approach you can take for dealing with social hesitancy)

I will think it was a great idea and something I always supported if it works, and will be all told you so if it doesn't.

Edited July 7, 2021 by steviewevie

[DeanoL]

Just now, steviewevie said:

I think it will be a great idea and something I always supported if it works, and will be all told you so if it doesn't.

I'm sure if cases go up and hospitalisations get to such a level we do need to go back into lockdown, it'll somehow be the fault of the people who kept wearing masks.

[incident]

1 hour ago, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

I'm still baffled by why the vaccine figures are so low. Is there a shortage? Have many of the vaccination centres been closed? Fewer volunteers? Or is it purely a lack of uptake now?

It's almost entirely uptake.

Not had a vaccine? More than 8 weeks since your first dose? Go get one.

Edit: Should clarify the image is for Nottingham/shire, but there's similar walk ins available at many (probably most) locations all over the country.

Edited July 7, 2021 by incident

[zahidf]

Yup

Edited July 7, 2021 by zahidf

[steviewevie]

32 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Yup

 If opening more leads to higher R, then this means a bigger wave, right? And a bigger wave could mean more damage to people's health (and livelihoods).

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 If opening more leads to higher R, then this means a bigger wave, right? And a bigger wave could mean more damage to people's health (and livelihoods).

With schools closed, only so much of an increase in R. And the vaccines also limit the R rate

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

With schools closed, only so much of an increase in R. And the vaccines also limit the R rate

Ok.. but the whole argument that cases are rising anyway so may as well open up fully seems flawed to me. I get the arguments about school hols and exit waves in the autumn etc, but then that can be countered with booster jabs and vaxxing kids.

[steviewevie]

 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

So a medium case scenario means no chance of a swamped NHS and a pessimistic one which isn't close to the winters peak of 4000 a day? I can see why they are going ahead

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

So a medium case scenario means no chance of a swamped NHS and a pessimistic one which isn't close to the winters peak of 4000 a day? I can see why they are going ahead

Hospitals already busy.. especially in some areas (like Manchester)

[zahidf]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Hospitals already busy.. especially in some areas (like Manchester)

Are we locking down for busy hospitals or a collapsed NHS?