When will this shit end?

[Cream Soda]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

But MPs don't get sacked, it's ministers, etc, who do.

What are the consequences for MPs if they do something wrong?

[stuartbert two hats]

24 minutes ago, Dave85radiohead said:

He drove over 100 miles to his parents home via his second home in order to drop of key supplies. Conservatives accept that this was in rules despite the distance and nothing more was made of it. That’s just one of the reasons why it find it very hard to accept their criticism of Kinnock

To be fair, Kinnock wasn't provided aid to anyone in need.  He was travelling to socialise.

[jparx]

1 minute ago, Cream Soda said:

I think I'm being misunderstood here.  I in no way approve of Cummings or what he did.  I'm not comparing the two scenarios and deciding which is worse.  I'm just saying both were clear breaches of the rules.  Yes, one was clearly worse than the other, but both were things that the majority of the population did not do because it was clear we were not supposed to.  If we were all driving 100 miles to visit family the lockdown would have been pointless.

I completely agree with the point you're making - we have to be fair in the criticism and we can't ignore Labour MPs (well, just Kinnock. The other is a non-story to me) breaking the rules as well. Cummings was obviously worse, but that doesn't excuse Kinnock.

I think the key thing though is Kinnock didn't try and cover it up, and indeed apologised sincerely. People will accept mistakes if contrition is shown (especially as many have bent the rules to some degree). The Cummings scandal is totally different due to the lack of apology, the lying and cover up, and the retrospective amending of the rules to excuse him.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

What are the consequences for MPs if they do something wrong?

We have the recall petition available to us which is through The Recall of MPs Act 2015 and is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that makes provision for constituents to be able to recall their Member of Parliament (MP) and call a by-election. This petition is successful if at least one in ten voters in the constituency sign.

[mcshed]

3 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

To be fair, Kinnock wasn't provided aid to anyone in need.  He was travelling to socialise.

He does say he was dropping off some medicine.

[Dave85radiohead]

4 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

To be fair, Kinnock wasn't provided aid to anyone in need.  He was travelling to socialise.

That was his story though as was Jenerick’s.

I don’t believe Cummings was driving to test his eyesight so I was taking all the stories as they were presented by the people involved:

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, mcshed said:

He does say he was dropping off some medicine.

Ah sorry, I missed that.

[Cream Soda]

2 minutes ago, jparx said:

I completely agree with the point you're making - we have to be fair in the criticism and we can't ignore Labour MPs (well, just Kinnock. The other is a non-story to me) breaking the rules as well. Cummings was obviously worse, but that doesn't excuse Kinnock.

I think the key thing though is Kinnock didn't try and cover it up, and indeed apologised sincerely. People will accept mistakes if contrition is shown (especially as many have bent the rules to some degree). The Cummings scandal is totally different due to the lack of apology, the lying and cover up, and the retrospective amending of the rules to excuse him.

That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.  And I was just wondering if Cummings had apologised early on, would he have been forgiven by people on here.  But the c*** didn't apologise so I guess we'll never know.

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

We have the recall petition available to us which is through The Recall of MPs Act 2015 and is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that makes provision for constituents to be able to recall their Member of Parliament (MP) and call a by-election. This petition is successful if at least one in ten voters in the constituency sign.

I see, thanks.

2 minutes ago, mcshed said:

He does say he was dropping off some medicine.

That could have been dropped off for him, absolutely no excuse for a 100 mile drive.

[mcshed]

7 minutes ago, Neil said:

oh, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with "as an MP he should have set an example for everyone else". He's certainly been criticised for it.

But MPs don't get sacked, it's ministers, etc, who do.

And he's still in a different position to Cummings, who has set the policy and then taken the piss in about the biggest way possible (because he thought he was infected when doing his travelling).

Kinnock Jr is shadow minister for Asia so could be sacked from that position if anyone thought such a step was necessary.

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

What are the consequences for MPs if they do something wrong?

the most is being kicked out of the party - tho that's normally reserved for serious crime rather than the more-minor.

[mcshed]

2 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

That could have been dropped off for him, absolutely no excuse for a 100 mile drive.

I know it's silly but just pointing out he's using the same excuse as Jenrick.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Kinnock Jr is shadow minister for Asia so could be sacked from that position if anyone thought such a step was necessary.

yep, that would be fair enough.

But it also needs to be recognised that Cummings position of setting policy and the messaging makes them different.

[mcshed]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

yep, that would be fair enough.

But it also needs to be recognised that Cummings position of setting policy and the messaging makes them different.

Also doing it now rather than when it happened would look like trying to capitalise on Cummings rather than justice.

[Mouseboy11]

Wrong thread lol

Edited May 29, 2020 by Mouseboy11

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Kinnock’s only wrong doing was not understanding the rules, he clearly didn’t realise it was wrong by tweeting a photo. This doesn’t make it right of course, but it’s far more understandable when you’re in the opposition party that didn’t set the rules. He apologised straight away, it wasn’t a deliberate flouting of the rules then an attempt to get away with it.

Cunmings of course helped set the rules and knew them inside out. He broke them and then had two paths, apologising for doing so or gaslighting the population into thinking they had misunderstood them all along. That in itself is significantly worse on its own, without it course going into the many other details that make it much worse still.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[Dave85radiohead]

What a surprise. Just after his no deal Brexit .

[MrZigster]

Every time someone states that Cummings broke lockdown, they should be corrected with, "No, he broke quarantine. Different thing".

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

4 minutes ago, MrZigster said:

Every time someone states that Cummings broke lockdown, they should be corrected with, "No, he broke quarantine. Different thing".

He did both really 

[steviewevie]

I wonder why Johnson announced the easing of certain lockdown rules meaning people can have bbqs togetheer on the Thursday before a sunny weekend even though not supposed to come into effect until Monday? Can't think why.

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I wonder why Johnson announced the easing of certain lockdown rules meaning people can have bbqs togetheer on the Thursday before a sunny weekend even though not supposed to come into effect until Monday? Can't think why.

Because people are ignoring them anyway ? 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Because people are ignoring them anyway ? 

or maybe as a nice big distraction?

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, steviewevie said:

or maybe as a nice big distraction?

Cynic  

[Zoo Music Girl]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I wonder why Johnson announced the easing of certain lockdown rules meaning people can have bbqs togetheer on the Thursday before a sunny weekend even though not supposed to come into effect until Monday? Can't think why.

I was thinking this. It's pretty reckless when you think about it. 

BBC radio news bulletins at the moment are leading with Vallance warning that people still need to follow the rules as lockdown eases, but can't see this on the BBC main website anywhere. Was that today or from last night? Just wondering if he has subsequently said something else since the presser.

[steviewevie]

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

A lot of people I know have been doing it anyway for a while.

They haven’t announced it until now because they knew if they did people wouldn’t keep 2m apart and they’d end up going in each other’s houses etc.

Now they’ve announced it they know the same applies, people won’t keep 2m apart, especially when you get a few mates together drunk etc.

Whatever relaxations they announce the reality will always be more like the next phase to come