not-Glastonbury 2018

[fred quimby]

11 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

Don't fancy waking up with a lion in my tent thank you very much.

Better than the damn angry badgers that plauge worthy farm. Nasty they are

[pc3036]

13 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

Don't fancy waking up with a lion in my tent thank you very much.

could be agood deterrent for tent theives.....

[eFestivals]

3 hours ago, Pinhead said:

As long as the speculated fallow year event is not really a thinly disguised dry run for a complete Glastonbury Festival relocation, I don't see any problem with it. I'd not be a fan of Longleat though as a location tbh - the utter cnut who runs it now, Ceawlin, Viscount Weymouth I believe, is the worst kind of money grabbing elitist you'll find, who has no problem with fucking over his current tenant farmers and would likely I'd have thought, try to capitalise on the festival being on his land as much as possible.

It would have to be fairly far away from the animal enclosures too I would think, not least for their comfort but also punters safety! Otherwise you'll get a situation a bit like what London Zoo has been recently criticised for.

Hopefully it wouldn't be Centerparcs branded either...!

Another festival on the parkland of a stately home is also not particularly original either. Give me those Avalon Fields any day for a few more years I hope. I'd rather Glasto ended gracefully and on a high than be relocated personally, though I do of course appreciate the difficulties that have amounted over the years.

I've no idea if it would be at longleat or not, but I reckon stately home estates are the most likely options for any very big event - because if Glasto did move and moved to another place with fragmented land ownership it would be likely to hit the same 'being held to ransom' problems as now.

But ... that same 'held for ransom' problem would still exist with that estate owner. Yes, it can be tied down for a number of years in a first contract, but at some point down the line that contract expires and they're held to ransom for the next years.

From that documentary about the new guy running longleat it does look like a likely option. Him wanting to raise greater income from the estate is likely to mean he'd be open to the income a festival would bring.

The other side of that is that festival income has been supporting Worthy Farm thru periods of what have been tough times for many farmers. While it's probably true that Worthy Farm is now better-set for the future than many of the farms who've had greater struggles, it's probably also come to rely on that income to a certain extent, and it might be around this that any idea about a move breaks down.

[Pinhead]

Yes I strongly agree. It would be tragic to think of that guy (I saw the same documentary as you I think), taking an increasing slice of the pie as time goes on to the detriment of the charities, for example, to which GFL subscribes as well as the money left over to plough back into the following years event. I don't doubt he might even levy a fee offset against the income that other events could bring in using the land at the same time as well, essentially making GFL compete. Not a great situation.

With any move, surely the investments and benefits to the local economies of scale around Pilton and further beyond would also suffer - you'd think that these days they'd all be keen to lobby the Eavises to reconsider - perhaps that's the intention....

[grumpyhack]

Longleat is a very slick operation these days with lots and lots of ideas to part people from their money if you go round the wildlife park.

CenterParc is a separate operation from Longleat Estate, although on Longleat land.

To declare a tenuous, historical interest, a hundred years ago my great grandfather was head gamekeeper at Longleat.  My father grew up living in the gamekeeper's cottage (whilst his father was away fighting in the First World War) and as a child of seven he had a four mile unaccompanied walk to school through the woods each day. (No lions then but how times have changed!)

[DeanoL]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

The other side of that is that festival income has been supporting Worthy Farm thru periods of what have been tough times for many farmers. While it's probably true that Worthy Farm is now better-set for the future than many of the farms who've had greater struggles, it's probably also come to rely on that income to a certain extent, and it might be around this that any idea about a move breaks down.

I did wonder along the lines of if we'll see a smaller festival in 2018 at a different site, with a long-term plan to scale it up to be the 'new' Glastonbury, at which point they revert to running a smaller festival at Worthy (without using the surrounding lands).

 

3 hours ago, Pinhead said:

Yes I strongly agree. It would be tragic to think of that guy (I saw the same documentary as you I think), taking an increasing slice of the pie as time goes on to the detriment of the charities, for example, to which GFL subscribes as well as the money left over to plough back into the following years event. I don't doubt he might even levy a fee offset against the income that other events could bring in using the land at the same time as well, essentially making GFL compete. Not a great situation.

Worthy Farm essentially charges a fairly significant 'rent' to GFL at the moment though. Obviously the negotiations are a little easier, but it's not like the festival gets the land for free.

[stuartbert two hats]

2 hours ago, DeanoL said:

I did wonder along the lines of if we'll see a smaller festival in 2018 at a different site, with a long-term plan to scale it up to be the 'new' Glastonbury, at which point they revert to running a smaller festival at Worthy (without using the surrounding lands).

 

Worthy Farm essentially charges a fairly significant 'rent' to GFL at the moment though. Obviously the negotiations are a little easier, but it's not like the festival gets the land for free.

True, but given the common owners, Worthy Farm is never likely to be attempting to extract so much money from GFL that it puts the festival in jeopardy. It's not the worry of having to pay a fair price that is the concern. More a greedy landowner that doesn't care about the festival.

[denwyn]

As much as I don't go along with all the hippy thoughts on the festival, I don't see it being anything but another ordinary festival if they moved it. Worthy farm is its home, can't see the point it all the hassle for a extra year. Leave it alone,it's worked fine for so long. 

[Yokel Again]

10 minutes ago, denwyn said:

As much as I don't go along with all the hippy thoughts on the festival, I don't see it being anything but another ordinary festival if they moved it. Worthy farm is its home, can't see the point it all the hassle for a extra year. Leave it alone,it's worked fine for so long. 

Agreed.

[DeanoL]

15 minutes ago, denwyn said:

As much as I don't go along with all the hippy thoughts on the festival, I don't see it being anything but another ordinary festival if they moved it. Worthy farm is its home, can't see the point it all the hassle for a extra year. Leave it alone,it's worked fine for so long. 

I once ran a gig that had been at one venue for about seven years, and I moved it to a different venue in another part of town. And I got some of this nonsense too from people that didn't like the move, that it'd gone from its home, and that it'd worked fine for seven years, why change it now?

Because to make it "work fine" from their perspecitve, I'd spent a good three years arguing with the venue management on a weekly basis, pushing back against shit they wanted to do that would ruin it, making compromises that were costing me money, and frustrating performers. It was hell. To make it "work fine" was a fucking nightmare. But that was my job - to ensure the punters had absolutely no idea that anything was amiss. I did my job well.

Just because it looks like it's working, doesn't mean it actually is.

[giantkatestacks]

As an aside I didnt know there was a caravan site there as well. Interesting. well mildly diverting anyway.

[russycarps]

39 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I once ran a gig that had been at one venue for about seven years, and I moved it to a different venue in another part of town. And I got some of this nonsense too from people that didn't like the move, that it'd gone from its home, and that it'd worked fine for seven years, why change it now?

Because to make it "work fine" from their perspecitve, I'd spent a good three years arguing with the venue management on a weekly basis, pushing back against shit they wanted to do that would ruin it, making compromises that were costing me money, and frustrating performers. It was hell. To make it "work fine" was a fucking nightmare. But that was my job - to ensure the punters had absolutely no idea that anything was amiss. I did my job well.

Just because it looks like it's working, doesn't mean it actually is.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons why things would be better at longleat (or wherever) from a logistical point of view. But why should a punter give a toss about any of that? We pay £250 for someone else to sort all that crap out. 

But if all that crap becomes too much to handle and they move - which is completely their right to do so - they must surely be aware that the new entity wont be glastonbury festival. It'll be just another festival that relies on headliners, cost effectiveness and all that jazz. It will lose it's special status. No doubt about it. The days of selling out before the line up is released would last a year or two at best.

What would the unique selling point be?

 

 

 

 

[not worthy]

It does seem a completely logical strategy to adopt to ensure the future of the festival.

If the landowners that the current site relies upon are making things difficult at the current location then the only way to negotiate is to show that it can be relocated. Trail it in the fallow years initially and move it if the current site becomes impossible. In all likelihood the fallow year trial will be enough to resolve the issues with current landowner issues.

Branding will be fun with so much value in 'Glastonbury'. Pilton is what? 7 miles from Glastonbury, Longleat closer to 30?

My guess, worth nowt, they'll just either keep the brand 'Glastonbury' at the new site or initially put Fallow Festival in the banner

In the Eavii we must trust, they're just doing what is needed to attempt to secure its long term future at the current site

[Cheesey]

57 minutes ago, denwyn said:

Worthy farm is its home, can't see the point it all the hassle for a extra year. Leave it alone,it's worked fine for so long. 

Unfortunately though it's not working fine (e.g. massive quantities of piss), and there are changes that the Eavii can't control (e.g. surround land owners getting greedy or wanting to use their land for other stuff). I don't think leaving it alone is a viable option.

Longleat has some stunningly beautiful land, and a festival there could work very well, if they figured out how to use that land well like they do at Worthy Farm. However, the thought of a toff in a castle having the festival by the balls doesn't fill me with positive thoughts.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Cheesey said:

However, the thought of a toff in a castle having the festival by the balls doesn't fill me with positive thoughts.

there doesn't have to be a toff or castle involved at all. Once it's on someone else's land, they have you by the balls.

[russycarps]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

there doesn't have to be a toff or castle involved at all. Once it's on someone else's land, they have you by the balls.

70% of the land in the uk is still owned by william the conquerors mob!

Edited April 15, 2016 by russycarps

[Cheesey]

Here's an example of the Longleat landscape, for those who have never been there. This photo was taken after the Red Bull air race in 2005:

Edited April 15, 2016 by Cheesey

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, russycarps said:

70% of the land in the uk is still owned by william the conquerors mob!

If you're going to get all monarchical-technical, I'll point out every spec of dust is owned by Brenda.

But yeah. What it is, 600,000 people? About 1%, fancy that.

[Heather90]

20 minutes ago, russycarps said:

I'm sure there are lots of reasons why things would be better at longleat (or wherever) from a logistical point of view. But why should a punter give a toss about any of that? We pay £250 for someone else to sort all that crap out. 

I do see your point but it's possible it's not a choice of Worthy Farm or Longleat - which if it was I'm sure all those involved would pick Worthy farm. We may be fast approaching the time where there are 2 options

1. Glastonbury Festival @ Longleat, hopefully retaining the focus on ethical issues, encompassing a wide section of soceity, greater creative freedom for areas and less commercial input than most other festivals and a really good stab at keeping it sustainable for all those that enjoy it

2. No festival

[dooke10]

I hate the idea.

[Junglist1981]

I'm very open to the idea of a new festival run by the Glastonbury team, after all it's their expertise and ethos that makes Glastonbury the greatest festival in the land if not the world. They really do know what they're doing and I'd trust in their judgement. If they can take all the people that currently work on the festival with them, and there's no reason why not, then it could potentially be amazing.

Would be very sad to see the current site go though of course. I'll be making extra sure that I get a ticket for 2017, just in case it's the last proper festival in Pilton.

As an aside, don't you think that with how The Park area is setup it could easily become a little festival in of itself? 

[mrf]

I would wonder whether Longleat would be happy to put aside the amount space for the amount of time required to put Glastonbury together. For every person that complains about the headliners, 10 more will tell them that its so much more than that - but so much of that relies on whats there and what they can put in place each year.

I cant sea Longleat allowing that - so it would likely be restricted to the musical aspect of Glastonbury, and the question would be whether that alone would be enough to separate it from all the other festivals that pay a LOT more to the acts.

[ogriff]

I recall it being said previously that Glastonbury's ability to have no arena was largely historical, and that it would be tricky for any new festival of size/substance to have such an approach regarding their alcohol licence.  

I hope that's not complete horsepoo.

Anyway, would that therefore mean that any move would mean a massive change in that regard (drink by your tents as much as you please but not in the "arena" / a complete separation of camping and venues)?  

And presumably also, massively increased bar revenues and the like...

Sorry, I'll take my cynical prick hat off.

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, ogriff said:

I recall it being said previously that Glastonbury's ability to have no arena was largely historical, and that it would be tricky for any new festival of size/substance to have such an approach regarding their alcohol licence.  

I hope that's not complete horsepoo.

Not horsepoo. There's no guarantee that a festival in a different place would be permitted to operate on similar licencing rules. Glasto is able to do a lot that others can't because of its long history.

A major one is kids being free. I know plenty of other festivals have wanted to do the same, but the licencing council has insisted on very strict numbers rules with all heads counted. Glastonbury has an allowance for kids within its licence, in the difference between the number of tickets sold (about 135k) and the licenced number (205k) which also includes staff and performers.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, russycarps said:

But if all that crap becomes too much to handle and they move - which is completely their right to do so - they must surely be aware that the new entity wont be glastonbury festival.

If you think Glastonbury is the land it's built on, and not the people who run it (right from the Eavii down to the stage manager of the smallest tent on site) then I'm not sure you really get what it is either.