Kneecap

[lazyred]

3 hours ago, SheffJeff said:

Both of these links are over 18 months old and in that time alot has changed. On the human Rights Watch website there are countless articles since the one you reference detailing Israeli war crimes and Karim Khan has issued arrest warrants against Netanyahu And Gallant since that article was posted for war crimes in Gaza.

The articles were explaining the law as it  applied to Gaza. I don't think the international law has changed in 18 months. HRW and the ICC have applied that law and found Israel guilty of war crimes. The ICC also found Hamas guilty of war crimes. That gives Israel a right of self defense but not by committing further war crimes.

 

[Colorblindjames]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

and I'll say again but I know it pisses people off...I don't think this would be happening unless the Oct 7th attacks had happened.

Victim blaming. And it was happening before Oct 7th. 100s of Palestinian kids were killed before Oct 7 in 2023. It’s been going on Since 1948. 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Victim blaming. And it was happening before Oct 7th. 100s of Palestinian kids were killed before Oct 7 in 2023. It’s been going on Since 1948. 

Yes, but I don't think what is currently happening to Gaza would be happening unless Oct 7th had happened.

You're welcome to disagree, and we'll never know.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Victim blaming. And it was happening before Oct 7th. 100s of Palestinian kids were killed before Oct 7 in 2023. It’s been going on Since 1948. 

and if you see Hamas as the victims then yes maybe I am partly blaming them.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Accepting your premise that things have indeed got worse for the Palestinians since October 7th gave Israel a pretext to fully rip off its mask - do you consider the conditions that the Palestinians were forced to live under prior to that - apartheid, malnutrition, arbitrary detention, deprived of rights the rest of the world takes for granted - were reasonable?

 

Would you just nod alonh with it if you lived in a land that became colonised by foreign military?

[MEGABOWL]

The UK Government responds to Kneecap (parody)

[steviewevie]

41 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Accepting your premise that things have indeed got worse for the Palestinians since October 7th gave Israel a pretext to fully rip off its mask - do you consider the conditions that the Palestinians were forced to live under prior to that - apartheid, malnutrition, arbitrary detention, deprived of rights the rest of the world takes for granted - were reasonable?

 

Would you just nod alonh with it if you lived in a land that became colonised by foreign military?

No, I agree and accept all that. 

Simply saying that since Oct 7th the plight of Gazans has got a whole lot worse, you just have to look at the news. It is a whole new level now. Which is why of course Israel is the enemy who is doing this, but people are being brave enough to protest against Hamas.

I had real hope that somehow this latest ceasefire would work and maybe Trump's stupid words would embolden Egypt and others to get involved with rebuilding and running Gaza until some sort of stable Palestinian administration could take over...but instead it is explicitly genocide now, another Nakba. Trump doesn't seem to care, he's busy elsewhere, and the rest of the world does nothing..

 

Drone video shows Gaza before and after war as ceasefire holds

 

 

[steviewevie]

Biden was sh*t in relation to Israel and Gaza, but after a good start with Trump and the ceasefire Israel seem to think they have the green light to clear out Gaza and do whatever they need to do without worrying about international rules and laws. Harris would not be allowing this, I am pretty sure of that. 

[The_Fish]

20 hours ago, TheDayman said:

Your logic is contradicting itself. You say you support innocent Iranians and Russians, but wouldn’t call yourself pro-Iran or pro-Russia because of their governments. Yet with Palestinians, you've reversed that by saying you can’t be pro-Palestinian because of Hamas.

Either we can distinguish people from their rulers, or we can’t?

Seems to me you're being quite selective with your empathy 🤷‍♂️

 

My logic is the same. Hamas are the Government of Gaza, same as with Russia and Iran. I can never call myself pro-Russia because of their leadership, despite having sympathy for suffering innocent civilians. I have sympathy for suffering innocent civilians in Palestine, but I'm not pro-Palestine.

[CaledonianGonzo]

46 minutes ago, The_Fish said:

 

My logic is the same. Hamas are the Government of Gaza, same as with Russia and Iran. I can never call myself pro-Russia because of their leadership, despite having sympathy for suffering innocent civilians. I have sympathy for suffering innocent civilians in Palestine, but I'm not pro-Palestine.

 

If we take that most (if not all governments) do and say sh*tty things - up to and including war crimes - as a starting point, then I think you have to look at 'to what ends'.

 

In Gaza, Hamas represent a uniquely immiserated population captive in the world's biggest open air prison and Hamas's goal is to liberate them into a new state and guarantee the right of return for the refugees created by the Nakba. 

 

That's a better aspiration than what's driven Putin to invade Ukraine - who are, incidentally, a far better analogue for the folk in Gaza than the Russians are.

[clasher]

6 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

If we take that most (if not all governments) do and say sh*tty things - up to and including war crimes - as a starting point, then I think you have to look at 'to what ends'.

 

In Gaza, Hamas represent a uniquely immiserated population captive in the world's biggest open air prison and Hamas's goal is to liberate them into a new state and guarantee the right of return for the refugees created by the Nakba. 

 

That's a better aspiration than what's driven Putin to invade Ukraine - who are, incidentally, a far better analogue for the folk in Gaza than the Russians are.

 

That's a great point. And blaming Hamas is really not unlike Trump saying Zelenski started the war.

[CaledonianGonzo]

4 minutes ago, clasher said:

 

That's a great point. And blaming Hamas is really not unlike Trump saying Zelenski started the war.

 

Anyone who's not noticed that Israel is now a passion project of the international far right, in the same way that Russia itself is, is simply not paying attention.

[steviewevie]

I certainly don't blame Palestinians for turning to Hamas, but I do blame Hamas for letting down their people.

But ultimately, Israel are the ones doing the bombing, the killing, and the cutting off of supplies and aid in Gaza.  Maybe I, as well as some others, are pointing our finger too much at Hamas.

[The_Fish]

37 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

If we take that most (if not all governments) do and say sh*tty things - up to and including war crimes - as a starting point, then I think you have to look at 'to what ends'.

 

In Gaza, Hamas represent a uniquely immiserated population captive in the world's biggest open air prison and Hamas's goal is to liberate them into a new state and guarantee the right of return for the refugees created by the Nakba. 

 

That's a better aspiration than what's driven Putin to invade Ukraine - who are, incidentally, a far better analogue for the folk in Gaza than the Russians are.

Hamas are a terrorist organisation who’s founding charter sets out their aim to destroy Israel. 
 

They have received billions in aid and used it to re-arm and build tunnels, rather than on trying to improve Gaza. 

 

I’m very supportive or Ukraine, but I have sympathy for innocents on all sides. 
 

[CaledonianGonzo]

14 minutes ago, The_Fish said:

Hamas are a terrorist organisation

 

This is a simple, declarative statement, but it belies the reality that the majority of countries globally don't designate them as such.  It's only really in Europe, the US, Canada, Australia i.e. the West that this considered an incontestable fact.  Brazil, India, China, all of Africa, etc think differently.  Even New Zealand until a couple of years back.

 

Given that Hamas have never - as far as I'm aware - operated outside of Palestine, do you think there's a political game afoot regarding such designations?

 

As for the charter and the money -  the former has already been covered extensively here and for the latter it's hardly unusual for any country to spend heavily on 'defence'.

[Physical_graffiti]

1 hour ago, The_Fish said:

Hamas are a terrorist organisation who’s founding charter sets out their aim to destroy Israel. 
 

They have received billions in aid and used it to re-arm and build tunnels, rather than on trying to improve Gaza. 

 

I’m very supportive or Ukraine, but I have sympathy for innocents on all sides. 
 

I agree entirely. As someone said above though, Israel are by all measures, currently worse terrorists. They are the ones committing genocide, hence the justified anger and focus against them. When people counter israel criticism/justified hate with "what about hamas" - well yeah, we know hamas are bad, but our government is funding and supporting israel murdering innocents and explicitly engaging in ethnic cleansing, therefore "what about the bad people that are opposing them" almost feels irrelevant.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Physical_graffiti said:

I agree entirely. As someone said above though, Israel are by all measures, currently worse terrorists. They are the ones committing genocide, hence the justified anger and focus against them. When people counter israel criticism/justified hate with "what about hamas" - well yeah, we know hamas are bad, but our government is funding and supporting israel murdering innocents and explicitly engaging in ethnic cleansing, therefore "what about the bad people that are opposing them" almost feels irrelevant.

Is our government funding and supporting Israel? I know we have arms contracts with them, but actually directly funding them?

[Physical_graffiti]

24 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Is our government funding and supporting Israel? I know we have arms contracts with them, but actually directly funding them?

well I suppose it's how you define it, but no the UK government doesn't ever directly 'fund' any other country i.e. "here's a bank transfer of £X". Even foreign aid to third world countries is generally done in the form of projects to develop infrastructure etc. We engage in £5billion of trade with israel.

 

In terms of direct support for their genocide, we provide arms to them, and directly engage in military support - the RAF conduct intelligence gathering flights over Gaza from their base in Cyprus and share with Israel. The patterns of these flights can be linked to specific attacks (e.g. one on a refugee camp). Note - the UK say these flights are to locate hostages.

 

TLDR; by "funding" I mean through trade, arms and military support

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

well I suppose it's how you define it, but no the UK government doesn't ever directly 'fund' any other country i.e. "here's a bank transfer of £X". Even foreign aid to third world countries is generally done in the form of projects to develop infrastructure etc. We engage in £5billion of trade with israel.

 

In terms of direct support for their genocide, we provide arms to them, and directly engage in military support - the RAF conduct intelligence gathering flights over Gaza from their base in Cyprus and share with Israel. The patterns of these flights can be linked to specific attacks (e.g. one on a refugee camp). Note - the UK say these flights are to locate hostages.

 

TLDR; by "funding" I mean through trade, arms and military support

Well there should be no excuses and all those should be at least suspended. 

[kaosmark2]

Gonna lock this thread now, and link people to the International Politics thread.

 

If any news happens with Kneecap, and someone wants to reignite the conversation related to the band, DM a moderator with the link and request and we'll re-open it.

Edited May 7, 2025 by kaosmark2

[Sawdusty surfer]

Heard from someone that knows about this stuff that Kneecap are hoping to do a few UK dates late autumn. Not confirmed but they are working on it.

[Crazyfool01]

we are reopening this thread because of updated news  ... as before please remain respectful to other users and please keep kneecap related posts to this thread to make things easier for mods . Thanks 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2qq2n3800o

[MilkyJoe]

Keep it on topic please folks.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2qq2n3800o

 

[ProperTea]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

we are reopening this thread because of updated news  ... as before please remain respectful to other users and please keep kneecap related posts to this thread to make things easier for mods . Thanks 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2qq2n3800o

Suspect that's it now for the tour/festivals.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, ProperTea said:

Suspect that's it now for the tour/festivals.

they might pull it to make decision easier for others maybe ?