The 1975

[crumbler]

How did we get here? 😄

[Nobby's Old Boots]

27 minutes ago, crumbler said:

How did we get here? 😄

It's become yet another topic impossible to talk about in any sort of sensible way,

because people who already hate Matty Healy are now pretending they care about the issues at hand when actually they're foaming at the mouth when something like this happens,

and people who love Matty Healy are prepared to bend over backwards and exercise massive mental gymnastics to defend everything he does.

Oh yeah and some racist poster has hopped in to give their completely unwanted and moronic opinions for some unknown reason.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Nobby's Old Boots

[Drums Please Fab]

1 hour ago, crumbler said:

How did we get here? 😄

Too many people engaging in bad faith arguments.

Playing the man instead of the ball and not discussing the points at hand.

Resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of healthy debate.

[Isaact]

8 hours ago, Drums Please Fab said:

Too many people engaging in bad faith arguments.

Playing the man instead of the ball and not discussing the points at hand.

Resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of healthy debate.

I mean the debate was over when all the major LGBTQ+ groups in Malaysia condemned him for it.

There's not really much to debate after that, unless you fancy being a poster child for White Savior Complex.

The LGBTQ+ groups of Malaysia know what's better for them than Matty, can't even believe its open for debate.

[Nobby's Old Boots]

34 minutes ago, Isaact said:

I mean the debate was over when all the major LGBTQ+ groups in Malaysia condemned him for it.

There's not really much to debate after that, unless you fancy being a poster child for White Savior Complex.

The LGBTQ+ groups of Malaysia know what's better for them than Matty, can't even believe its open for debate.

Can you direct us to the posts you've made bringing to light and supporting the many people suffering appalling human rights abuses across the world due to their sexuality? I suspect not. Yet there were plenty of posts from you before this bitching about him/the band, so pretending you care about this issue just to bolster your existing views leaves a really bad taste & makes you look a certain way.

And if you pretend not to understand that then you're just as disingenuous as the 'stans' you hate so much, who will say anything to defend him. 

[JonSnow]

Hey hey hey I've been in Reno for six weeks, did I miss anything?

[Drums Please Fab]

4 hours ago, Isaact said:

I mean the debate was over when all the major LGBTQ+ groups in Malaysia condemned him for it.

There's not really much to debate after that, unless you fancy being a poster child for White Savior Complex.

The LGBTQ+ groups of Malaysia know what's better for them than Matty, can't even believe its open for debate.

White saviour complex? Sounds a bit racist that.

Are you assuming my ethnicity, race, sexual orientation etc and then prescribing opinions to me that I may or may not hold based on those characteristics? 

 

[Isaact]

56 minutes ago, Drums Please Fab said:

White saviour complex? Sounds a bit racist that.

Are you assuming my ethnicity, race, sexual orientation etc and then prescribing opinions to me that I may or may not hold based on those characteristics? 

 

Usually it's helpful to Google a term and read the meaning before you put your foot in your mouth.

[Nicklord]

I remember when I was in Malaysia 10 or so years ago with another guy and 2 girls from my university and a female professor (it was a case study competition there) and there were some students from smaller cities that couldn't understand how can a girl and a boy in their early 20s sleep in the same room that are not a couple. One guy thought I was gay because of that and didn't want talk to me anymore

[CaledonianGonzo]

Ungrateful Malaysian gays making the BBC news.   

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-66286800?utm_campaign=later-linkinbio-bbcnews&utm_content=later-36723227&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkin.bio

Clearly too backwards to understand that this was actually a good thing.

 

[strummer77]

2 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Ungrateful Malaysian gays making the BBC news.   

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-66286800?utm_campaign=later-linkinbio-bbcnews&utm_content=later-36723227&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkin.bio

Clearly too backwards to understand that this was actually a good thing.

 

Still feels complex doesn’t it? Much more complex than basically everyone who’s engaged so far in this thread makes out.

It’s clear from the article many in Malaysia are not keen on this intervention but I still think there is a debate whether this means it is entirely wrong as it is natural oppression makes you nervy and scared. The ‘white saviour’ and ‘don’t come over here and criticise our country’ feels fair on one hand but also a bit Stockholm syndrome-ish on the other? 

Also feels to me there short term and possible long term consequences.  Maybe short term it is bad - but also perhaps it had drawn awareness to the issue that could help longer term and it’s clear that silence has hardly worked in the past either…

Feels very complicated to me anyway.  The only conclusion I have made is that people over here have generally jumped on the incident whatever their knowledge to point score either way about Matt Healy rather than genuinely trying to support the Malaysian LGBTQ community. 
 

(Already regret posting in here as most of the thread seems to be absolute nonsense.)

Edited July 25, 2023 by strummer77

[Isaact]

On one hand, should we listen to the locals living and breathing under oppression, or, and hear me out here, should we listen to multi-millionaire overprivileged white edgelord pop stars?

It's certainly a tricky conundrum!

Edited July 25, 2023 by Isaact

[clarkete]

35 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

Still feels complex doesn’t it? Much more complex than basically everyone who’s engaged so far in this thread makes out.

It’s clear from the article many in Malaysia are not keen on this intervention but I still think there is a debate whether this means it is entirely wrong as it is natural oppression makes you nervy and scared. The ‘white saviour’ and ‘don’t come over here and criticise our country’ feels fair on one hand but also a bit Stockholm syndrome-ish on the other? 

Also feels to me there short term and possible long term consequences.  Maybe short term it is bad - but also perhaps it had drawn awareness to the issue that could help longer term and it’s clear that silence has hardly worked in the past either…

Feels very complicated to me anyway.  The only conclusion I have made is that people over here have generally jumped on the incident whatever their knowledge to point score either way about Matt Healy rather than genuinely trying to support the Malaysian LGBTQ community. 
 

(Already regret posting in here as most of the thread seems to be absolute nonsense.)

No, I don't think it's that at all - they're saying such indelicate intervention can have bad consequences for the locals who have to stay and live in this system. 

For example - "Malaysian State Elections are just around the corner, taking place in August, thus Healy’s bravado comes at a time when good intentions can have a damning impact, serving as further ammunition for policymakers." 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/matt-healy-lgbt-the-1975-malaysia-b2380876.html#comments-area

[Nobby's Old Boots]

43 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

The only conclusion I have made is that people over here have generally jumped on the incident whatever their knowledge to point score either way about Matt Healy rather than genuinely trying to support the Malaysian LGBTQ community. 

Point immediately proven by the very next post.

[CaledonianGonzo]

And how would that support manifest in a discussion thread? 

Are you wanting people who think this was misguided at best to go to Malaysia and do something to balance it out?

[Nobby's Old Boots]

5 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

And how would that support manifest in a discussion thread? 

Are you wanting people who think this was misguided at best to go to Malaysia and do something to balance it out?

Are you saying you feel completely comfortable with people who have previously spent a lot of time making it clear they dislike Healy now using this as an excuse to say it some more? Feels rotten to me.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Perfectly ok with it. Why would it suddenly turn them into a fan?

[Nobby's Old Boots]

7 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Perfectly ok with it. Why would it suddenly turn them into a fan?

Eh? Hopefully that logic makes sense to you at least.

I think people pretending they care about something like this and using a serious situation for their own means - purely to score points against someone they already don't like is grim beyond belief.

No better than the people who find any excuse they can for his behaviour.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Or you can look at facts as they emerge and base your opinion on those?

I was on the fence about it as a gesture until I started looking at what people in Malaysia were actually saying about it.

I was originally agnostic cos of (vague) memories Qatari LGBTQ+ people reacting in horror to a similar protest by Peter Tatchell during the World Cup. 

[Nobby's Old Boots]

14 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Or you can look at facts as they emerge and base your opinion on those?

I was on the fence about it as a gesture until I started looking at what people in Malaysia were actually saying about it.

I was originally agnostic cos of (vague) memories Qatari LGBTQ+ people reacting in horror to a similar protest by Peter Tatchell during the World Cup. 

Absolutely, that's why I'm surprised you're fine with people whose intentions are blatantly transparent in that they clearly don't care about the marginalised people actually involved, and instead are repeating their distain for him. It's dishonest and makes me uneasy, that was the point I was making.

No wonder those people want to dismiss the importance of "intent".

[Justiceforcedave]

4 hours ago, Drums Please Fab said:

White saviour complex? Sounds a bit racist that.

Are you assuming my ethnicity, race, sexual orientation etc and then prescribing opinions to me that I may or may not hold based on those characteristics? 

 

If you're not heterosexual, cisgender and white... I'd be incredibly surprised.

[Isaact]

46 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

Absolutely, that's why I'm surprised you're fine with people whose intentions are blatantly transparent in that they clearly don't care about the marginalised people actually involved, and instead are repeating their distain for him. It's dishonest and makes me uneasy, that was the point I was making.

No wonder those people want to dismiss the importance of "intent".

What's dishonest about it? I dislike him due to his repeated tendency to do stupid, sh*tty things.

He does another stupid, sh*tty thing.

Thus proving my point!

Not quite sure where the dishonesty has crept in here?

What's dishonest is saying "oh he didn't mean those things, he's nice really, he's just fooling around!".

Just accept your boy is a seriously bad egg and make peace with it, no need for the mental gymnastics.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Isaact

[Nobby's Old Boots]

51 minutes ago, Isaact said:

What's dishonest about it? I dislike him due to his repeated tendency to do stupid, sh*tty things.

He does another stupid, sh*tty thing.

Thus proving my point!

Not quite sure where the dishonesty has crept in here?

What's dishonest is saying "oh he didn't mean those things, he's nice really, he's just fooling around!".

Just accept your boy is a seriously bad egg and make peace with it, no need for the mental gymnastics.

Learn to read posts properly or you just end up looking even more like an absolute tool.

I've not stuck up for him, that quote is entirely made up so why you've put it in speech marks is a mystery only you can solve, and now you're just clutching at straws calling him my "boy"

Idiot.

And for what it's worth the dishonesty comes from pretending you care about the marginalised and victimised groups at the centre of this. Using it as an excuse to go on about someone you don't like is distasteful, but I suspect you care even less about that.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Nobby's Old Boots

[Drums Please Fab]

3 hours ago, Justiceforcedave said:

If you're not heterosexual, cisgender and white... I'd be incredibly surprised.

I judge each argument on its own merits and each person on the arguments or points they are making regardless of who they sleep with with, their skin colour or gender.

Anything else is to enter into the conversation with a loaded dice.

Like if Kele Okereke did what Healy did is that ok?

Is it still white saviour complex? Does it have more gravitas coming from a gay man? Double points for being black?

[Suprefan]