Football 2020/2021

[eFestivals]

20 hours ago, jyoung said:

This 'Arsenal were better than City' thing is jokes.

Each of the four times City have won the league in the last decade they've won more games and scored more goals than the Arsenal 'invincibles'. Not to mention a higher points total twice.

And if you want to harp on about divers and cheats, well Arsenal wouldn't have won the league without losing a game if Robert Pires didn't dive for a pen in a 1-1 draw with Pompey.

the comparison was the beauty of the play, not how effective they were at winning.

And don't tell me there's no beauty in the play. No one chooses to watch Burnley for their style.

[eastynh]

No penalty, no party 🤷‍♂️

[thetime]

16 minutes ago, eastynh said:

No penalty, no party 🤷‍♂️

Best team won, united showed class with Colin Bell yesterday.

[eastynh]

1 minute ago, thetime said:

Best team won, united showed class with Colin Bell yesterday.

So they should, it's common human decency.

[eastynh]

10 minutes ago, eastynh said:

So they should, it's common human decency.

@thetime why would you down vote that comment? Do you want some kind of award for your players standing round a centre circle and keeping their mouths shut?

Do you remember the 50th anniversary of munich? You were playing City and for 2 weeks prior to the match, all City got was abuse from the media, ex players and the manager of your club about how we would misbehave and show no respect. We got dogs abuse and had not done a thing wrong. Come the day of the match is was United fans who could not behave and could not take defeat. For the minutes silence, the City fans were impeccable.

I am not sure what you expect with the the lack of respect United have shown City over the years.

As for last night, you might have had a chance in Fernandes had played.

[eastynh]

Did I actually miss something @thetime? Did United do something for Colin Bell?

[jyoung]

15 hours ago, eFestivals said:

And don't tell me there's no beauty in the play. No one chooses to watch Burnley for their style.

Manchester City are not Burnley.

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, jyoung said:

Manchester City are not Burnley.

I didn't say they were.

And it's still the case: Man City are not 20-years-ago Arsenal either.

[eastynh]

16 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I didn't say they were.

And it's still the case: Man City are not 20-years-ago Arsenal either.

Neil can you define what in your opinion actually nesessitates good and attractive football?

 

[priest17]

looks like Liverpool set to be let off this weekend, might only lose by 3 or 4 this time

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12182019/aston-villa-vs-liverpool-fa-cup-tie-set-to-go-ahead-but-tottenham-premier-league-game-in-doubt

[lost]

Haller to Ajax seems a strange one though I would think West Ham would have someone lined up, having to sell to buy immediately seems a bit worrying.  Regarding finances I wonder how clubs will get on with season ticket sales over the summer considering Whittys comments about possible restrictions coming back next winter.

Edited January 8, 2021 by lost

[mcshed]

7 hours ago, eastynh said:

Neil can you define what in your opinion actually nesessitates good and attractive football?

 

If the argument is beauty, which is all Neil has said surely you see that it won't be easily quantifiable. 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, mcshed said:

If the argument is beauty, which is all Neil has said surely you see that it won't be easily quantifiable. 

Yup, which is why I haven't tried. Nevertheless I reckon everyone understands why no one would choose Burnley for beauty. 

[kaosmark2]

On the beauty thing, is it just me who hated watching Spain at the peak of their powers? Barca at the time were incisive and a delight, but with Spain, it just looked like them endlessly passing the ball around the edge of the box waiting for their opponents to leave a gap or tire. I got so bored of that team, despite the fact that 7 of their typical 11 were the same players as Barca...

[priest17]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Except Barry's equaliser there, that was objectively beautiful. 1-1 at half time is madness.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, priest17 said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Nah.

No one thinks Burnley play beautiful football.

Effective, well-managed, (in context) successful football, yep.

But not beautiful.

[priest17]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Nah.

No one thinks Burnley play beautiful football.

Effective, well-managed, (in context) successful football, yep.

But not beautiful.

Sorry I wasn't suggesting that (although maybe some Burnley fans are blinded by passion, I doubt it though) it was more a comment on the arsenal/city beauty debate. If we're using subjective terms like that there's no point arguing with it.

How anyone can watch David Silva and not call his play, or pep's attacking football from keeper to net beautiful is beyond me, maybe I've just seen too much of city at their worst ahah. There's a reason they said pep's way of playing wouldn't work in English football and the beauty and optimism of it are factors of that.

[eFestivals]

59 minutes ago, priest17 said:

Sorry I wasn't suggesting that (although maybe some Burnley fans are blinded by passion, I doubt it though) it was more a comment on the arsenal/city beauty debate. If we're using subjective terms like that there's no point arguing with it.

How anyone can watch David Silva and not call his play, or pep's attacking football from keeper to net beautiful is beyond me, maybe I've just seen too much of city at their worst ahah. There's a reason they said pep's way of playing wouldn't work in English football and the beauty and optimism of it are factors of that.

If people can differentiate between Burnley and City, why can't they between City and (old) Arsenal?

The differences might be smaller but to this eye they're definitely still there.

[priest17]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

If people can differentiate between Burnley and City, why can't they between City and (old) Arsenal?

The differences might be smaller but to this eye they're definitely still there.

I'd say they do, I don't think anyone is suggesting they play the same way, just arguing that city are, in your words, "well short" of the beauty that arsenal's play had.

As I say though, beauty is a subjective term so we're never going to reach the end of this ahah.

To be honest the arsenal/city debate is the wrong one if anything as the state of football is so different now, the reason this debate is happening is because you said you followed them then the same reason you follow Liverpool now, and I probably would take exception to the idea that long ball Liverpool play better football than city (well... City 2 years ago)

[kaosmark2]

I'd argue that City's midfield at its peak was more attractive than Arsenal's, but Bergkamp/Henry were much more joyous to watch than Aguero. Aguero is a monstrously good striker, and I'd probably argue more effective than Henry, but if we're talking beauty no striker in the Prem comes close.

[eFestivals]

15 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I'd argue that City's midfield at its peak was more attractive than Arsenal's, but Bergkamp/Henry were much more joyous to watch than Aguero. Aguero is a monstrously good striker, and I'd probably argue more effective than Henry, but if we're talking beauty no striker in the Prem comes close.

Aguero is a fantastic goal scorer but there's little of the beautiful game about him. He's more Gary Linekar than Henry.

[eFestivals]

17 hours ago, priest17 said:

To be honest the arsenal/city debate is the wrong one if anything as the state of football is so different now, the reason this debate is happening is because you said you followed them then the same reason you follow Liverpool now, and I probably would take exception to the idea that long ball Liverpool play better football than city (well... City 2 years ago)

I chose to use Arsenal's name because I knew there'd be little argument that they played a beautiful game, to get what I was meaning across. Cos I'm well aware that Liverpool have not reached the same standard.

And yep, Liverpool's style has mostly dropped for at least the last year, and going back a bit further they were a better watch before they started winning things - partly because they could crumble and you'd sometimes get a fantastic game via the other team's contribution. I kept on watching Arsenal for years past their best too (cos just occasionally they still turned it on). It was Suarez who got my attention for switching my first choice to watch to Liverpool (not so much for beauty [tho that was often there too], but audaciousness).

I often watch other teams too but again it's their style that has me tune in. The last few years has included Wolves and Leicester and Norwich as preferred other choices.

Would I bother to watch Burnley vs Sheffield Utd? Nope (unless exceedingly bored).

[kaosmark2]

7 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Aguero is a fantastic goal scorer but there's little of the beautiful game about him. He's more Gary Linekar than Henry.

He can score beautiful goals, his finishing is unreal and he can hold off and pass players really well. He's an all-round top class striker. But.... it's impressive more than the beautiful game. I still think Henry's the most elegant striker in my lifetime.

[fred quimby]

On 1/8/2021 at 4:52 PM, kaosmark2 said:

On the beauty thing, is it just me who hated watching Spain at the peak of their powers? Barca at the time were incisive and a delight, but with Spain, it just looked like them endlessly passing the ball around the edge of the box waiting for their opponents to leave a gap or tire. I got so bored of that team, despite the fact that 7 of their typical 11 were the same players as Barca...

You are not alone

[pink_triangle]

On 1/8/2021 at 4:52 PM, kaosmark2 said:

On the beauty thing, is it just me who hated watching Spain at the peak of their powers? Barca at the time were incisive and a delight, but with Spain, it just looked like them endlessly passing the ball around the edge of the box waiting for their opponents to leave a gap or tire. I got so bored of that team, despite the fact that 7 of their typical 11 were the same players as Barca...

In general I agree about Spain. However when they turned it on like the Euro final against italy they were a joy to watch.