When will this shit end?

[JoeyT]

Having slept on it I’ve come to this conclusion...

Britain should not face losing the vaccines it is contracted to have based on the fact the EU didn’t get its ducks in a row quick enough.

However at the same time Britain should not end up with more doses than it is contracted to when AZ has other contractual commitments elsewhere.

Where the doses are manufactured should not be the issue:

Fair enough take?

[xxialac]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9194629/No-EU-jabs-Boris-dismisses-threat-Brussels-bids-snatch-75m-doses-UK.html

Headline should be 'Foreigners coming over here, stealing our jabs' surely...

[eFestivals]

 

Just now, Copperface said:

And I've been saying for ages that there is confusion and lack of transparency over the vaccine supply which breeds suspicion and cynicism which you also agree with.

Oh, good job you've put me right about what I'm thinking. 🙂 

I've far more cynicism about the use of documents about confusion that are 4 months old in a fast moving situation which are being used to make I-can't-be-wrong statements about today.

[Ozanne]

This was discussed briefly yesterday. 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, JoeyT said:

Having slept on it I’ve come to this conclusion...

Britain should not face losing the vaccines it is contracted to have based on the fact the EU didn’t get its ducks in a row quick enough.

However at the same time Britain should not end up with more doses than it is contracted to when AZ has other contractual commitments elsewhere.

Where the doses are manufactured should not be the issue:

Fair enough take?

My take is we need the detail. The press are of course bias in the UK's favour and have judged the Astrazeneca to be in the right too soon.

Someone on here said it's one for the lawyers and that's surely the case.  Contracts are vastly detailed for the very purpose of avoiding these very disagreements.

The speed of the EU's activity is completely irrelevant for me. *If* Astrazeneca contracted with promised delivery dates to the EU, like all contracts it must be honoured. Astrazeneca already knew about the UK's orders when they signed.

A big 'if' for now...

 

[Copperface]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

 

Oh, good job you've put me right about what I'm thinking. 🙂 

I've far more cynicism about the use of documents about confusion that are 4 months old in a fast moving situation which are being used to make I-can't-be-wrong statements about today.

Documents being 4 months old doesn't make them any less valid.

And as for 'I-cant-be-wrong-statements', I qualified it a few times eg 'It is total speculation', I1 would hazard a wild guess', 'I said it was speculation and nothing more.'

And as for telling you what you're thinking you said 'no fucker knows anything' which is my point.

[HalfAnIdiot]

7 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Having slept on it I’ve come to this conclusion...

Britain should not face losing the vaccines it is contracted to have based on the fact the EU didn’t get its ducks in a row quick enough.

However at the same time Britain should not end up with more doses than it is contracted to when AZ has other contractual commitments elsewhere.

Where the doses are manufactured should not be the issue:

Fair enough take?

Untill vaccines are rolled out across the world we are not out of danger. Untill covid is fully suppressed a new, vaccine resistant variant could arise at any time and spread rapidly despite travel restrictions. We are race against time to archieve global rollout. These national spats really do nothing to help.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Documents being 4 months old doesn't make them any less valid.

the fact that the document is pointing out contradictions flags up the only valid point as being nothing is clear.

[HalfAnIdiot]

5 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Documents being 4 months old doesn't make them any less valid.

And as for 'I-cant-be-wrong-statements', I qualified it a few times eg 'It is total speculation', I1 would hazard a wild guess', 'I said it was speculation and nothing more.'

And as for telling you what you're thinking you said 'no fucker knows anything' which is my point.

Of course it does, particularly in the current situation. It was a poorly written piece that really has no bearing on where we are today.

Maybe stop digging?

[JoeyT]

1 minute ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Untill vaccines are rolled out across the world we are not out of danger. Untill covid is fully suppressed a new, vaccine resistant variant could arise at any time and spread rapidly despite travel restrictions. We are race against time to archieve global rollout. These national spats really do nothing to help.

It's a valid thing to say so in that case having read my take on it, how would you resolve this situation if you think what i've said is not the way to solve this?

[Copperface]

Just now, eFestivals said:

the fact that the document is pointing out contradictions flags up the only valid point as being nothing is clear.

Absolutely. And when facts are murky then rumour and conjecture grow. I make no apology for that but try to get something out of what we can find and source.

[steviewevie]

27 minutes ago, ian the worm said:

Isn't Kent in France now?

yeah, true. The French variant! Bloody French.

[Ozanne]

14 minutes ago, xxialac said:

My take is we need the detail. The press are of course bias in the UK's favour and have judged the Astrazeneca to be in the right too soon.

Someone on here said it's one for the lawyers and that's surely the case.  Contracts are vastly detailed for the very purpose of avoiding these very disagreements.

The speed of the EU's activity is completely irrelevant for me. *If* Astrazeneca contracted with promised delivery dates to the EU, like all contracts it must be honoured. Astrazeneca already knew about the UK's orders when they signed.

A big 'if' for now...

 

Yeah I agree with this. If AZ signed a contract with the EU for a certain amount of doses by a certain date then they should honour that. 

[JoeyT]

One thing I didn't expect to see today, the vaccines minister replying to one of the more outspoken anti-lockdown professors using emoji's.

 

[Copperface]

1 minute ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Of course it does, particularly in the current situation. It was a poorly written piece that really has no bearing on where we are today.

Maybe stop digging?

OK, ignore the poorly written piece. 

Should we ignore the Government issued releases and letters as well? It has bearing on where we were when the contracts were being signed.

It's not a hill I'm going to die on, was just highlighting some inconsistencies which still exist in the context of the current dispute.

I'll just wave a flag and be confident BoJo has it covered then.

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 minute ago, JoeyT said:

It's a valid thing to say so in that case having read my take on it, how would you resolve this situation if you think what i've said is not the way to solve this?

Make the vaccine technology open source, compensating the developers.

Ensure all available plant is focussed on vaccine manufacture.

Buil and bring online new manufacturing facilities ASAP.

Unfortunately this requires global leadership and financing. Something that's been degraded massively in recent years sadly.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah I agree with this. If AZ signed a contract with the EU for a certain amount of doses by a certain date then they should honour that. 

well, they have two contracts to fulfil...one to UK and one to EU. There really should be a middle ground found here, we all need to be helping each other...man.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

OK, ignore the poorly written piece. 

Should we ignore the Government issued releases and letters as well? It has bearing on where we were when the contracts were being signed.

It's not a hill I'm going to die on, was just highlighting some inconsistencies which still exist in the context of the current dispute.

I'll just wave a flag and be confident BoJo has it covered then.

lol

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

One thing I didn't expect to see today, the vaccines minister replying to one of the more outspoken anti-lockdown professors using emoji's.

 

it's good...because he may have a few anti-vax people following him...

[HalfAnIdiot]

5 minutes ago, Copperface said:

OK, ignore the poorly written piece. 

Should we ignore the Government issued releases and letters as well? It has bearing on where we were when the contracts were being signed.

It's not a hill I'm going to die on, was just highlighting some inconsistencies which still exist in the context of the current dispute.

I'll just wave a flag and be confident BoJo has it covered then.

Your fighting the wrong battle if you want this hell over with. This continued beating up of Boris and co might be fun and we'll deserved but pointless right now.

The way forward now is massive global vaccine rollout but that's not widely recognised.

Edited January 28, 2021 by HalfAnIdiot

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah I agree with this. If AZ signed a contract with the EU for a certain amount of doses by a certain date then they should honour that. 

thing is, that contract is supposedly for a much faster supply (by volume) than the UK is getting.

Me, my take is that it's all bollocks, and the EU is simply deflecting criticism from its members.

And its members are criticising the EU because they're under fire because they're shit at vaccine roll-outs.

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah I agree with this. If AZ signed a contract with the EU for a certain amount of doses by a certain date then they should honour that. 

except its bests effort.... not x amount by x date

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

thing is, that contract is supposedly for a much faster supply (by volume) than the UK is getting.

Me, my take is that it's all bollocks, and the EU is simply deflecting criticism from its members.

And its members are criticising the EU because they're under fire because they're shit at vaccine roll-outs.

yeah its deflection. The EU messed up procurement and the countries with roll out

[xxialac]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

well, they have two contracts to fulfil...one to UK and one to EU. There really should be a middle ground found here, we all need to be helping each other...man.

Absolutely, 100%. Not suggesting everything to the EU but an equitable split IF Astrazeneca has overpromised to both parties.

[zahidf]

16 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Untill vaccines are rolled out across the world we are not out of danger. Untill covid is fully suppressed a new, vaccine resistant variant could arise at any time and spread rapidly despite travel restrictions. We are race against time to archieve global rollout. These national spats really do nothing to help.

tbf the uk isnt getting involved. EU are the ones trying to draw them in