When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

Just now, aj6658 said:

I can't see how anyone with any sense can not look at this government and see it as an utter abject failure. Every major decision they have got wrong, they have U turned constantly and failed in protecting the country and its people.

1. Boris said he would shake everyones hands at the beginning of the pandemic in hospitals
2. U turned on school meals
3. Said schools were safe and not a vector and literally went back 24 hours later 
4. Ignored lockdown on calls 3/4 times only to put into effect afterwards\
5. PPE scandal (cronyism) 
6. Being shamed into school meals by a footballer 
7. Delaying 2nd of the vaccine where there is no evidence to support (why isn't this a bigger scandal) 
8. The latest school meals disaster 
9. Boris missing Cobra meetings at the beginning of the crisis 
10. The constant lying about 
11. A track and trace system that has cost billions but doesn't work 
12. Eat out to help out 
13. Nightingale hospitals that don't have the staff
14. Voting against Nurses pay rises 
15. Never having any border controls 

These are just off the top of my head this morning. Look at OZ and NZ and where they are now.

So my question is how are they polling so high still?!

I’ve brought this up many times and the small few have told me ‘no country has handled this perfectly’ and ‘no other party could’ve done better’. It’s painful how some even now give them a pass.

You are right about everything you list, all of the issues we’ve experienced is because of the government.

They poll so highly because people are slow to turn against a governing party and Brexit mainly. 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, aj6658 said:

Delaying 2nd of the vaccine where there is no evidence to support (why isn't this a bigger scandal) 

there is evidence to support it.

The evidence is specific to the AZ vaccine, but the similarities with the Pfizer vaccine is close enough for scientists to surmise it's worth doing with the Pfizer vaccine too.

In other words: there's a risk of being wrong with how they're using the Pfizer vaccine, but not a big risk.

[Radiochicken]

10 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Yep it’s a massive issue. My Mother in Law works in a factory, and if she has to isolate due to getting COVID, or being a close contact she only receives £100 a week sick pay. She’s not eligible for the £500, so she completely falls through the cracks. 
 

Its a huge issue that the government have not addressed properly. People should receive  full pay for taking time off work due to COVID. Why bother getting a test, if you know a potential outcome is trying to survive on £400 a month?

 

 

Surely it’s an area with one of the clearest business cases. My guess is it’s in the pile of “too difficult do in practice” so they just haven’t bothered. Anyone know how other counties do it? Is it by default their sick pay is adequate?

[aj6658]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

there is evidence to support it.

The evidence is specific to the AZ vaccine, but the similarities with the Pfizer vaccine is close enough for scientists to surmise it's worth doing with the Pfizer vaccine too.

In other words: there's a risk of being wrong with how they're using the Pfizer vaccine, but not a big risk.

Beggars the question - why is no other country in the world doing this? 

[fraybentos1]

2 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Beggars the question - why is no other country in the world doing this? 

They probably will soon..

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, aj6658 said:

Beggars the question - why is no other country in the world doing this? 

have any others approved the AZ vaccine yet? I'm not sure they have.

Without the evidence from the AZ trial being verified by their medical authorisation peeps, they have nothing to work the idea from.

Having said that, Germany and Denmark are looking at the idea.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/04/germany-denmark-second-dose-covid-vaccine

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Beggars the question - why is no other country in the world doing this? 

Germany and US are looking to do it soon.their own scientists are looking at it

[aj6658]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

They probably will soon..

Would love it to be fine. I hate this government but I truly want them to succeed so I can get back to my normal life.   It would be just right up this government street to bugger up this decision and turns out we have wasted so much of the vaccine as we didn't follow the science. 

 

 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

have any others approved the AZ vaccine yet? I'm not sure they have.

Without the evidence from the AZ trial being verified by their medical authorisation peeps, they have nothing to work the idea from.

Having said that, Germany and Denmark are looking at the idea.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/04/germany-denmark-second-dose-covid-vaccine

And AZ chief bod yesterday said it was fine to have a 12 week gap between doses 

 

[xxialac]

9 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Beggars the question - why is no other country in the world doing this? 

Because the government is taking a gamble that it will work which they then milk for their propaganda campaign of 'look how much better we are than the EU', which in turn allows them to get away with diverging from e.g. human rights with the public on side.

The science is reasonably supportive here at least but the reasons are entirely self-serving and fundamentally not aimed at protecting the public but winning the PR war.

They tried the same trick with herd immunity. 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by xxialac

[fraybentos1]

6 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Would love it to be fine. I hate this government but I truly want them to succeed so I can get back to my normal life.   It would be just right up this government street to bugger up this decision and turns out we have wasted so much of the vaccine as we didn't follow the science. 

 

 

With the Oxford one, they say it’s better to have a longer dosing gap I believe. 

[Ozanne]

4 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Because the government is taking a gamble that it will work which they then milk for their propaganda campaign of 'look how much better we are than the EU', which in turn allows them to get away with diverging from e.g. human rights with the public on side.

The science is reasonably supportive here at least but the reasons are entirely self-serving and fundamentally not aimed at protecting the public but winning the PR war.

They tried the same trick with herd immunity. 

 

Plus they desperately want people back out spending again and workers back in offices paying rent to their landlord mates. 

[zahidf]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Plus they desperately want people back out spending again and workers back in offices paying rent to their landlord mates. 

The medial bods said its fine so its fine! AZ boss said the data bears out the approach yesterday

Also ending the pandemic and lockdown restrictions asap is a GOOD thing. If they've found a way to do it quicker by extending doses, then... thats great 

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, zahidf said:

And AZ chief bod yesterday said it was fine to have a 12 week gap between doses 

 

like I said, the evidence from their trial says that. For whatever reasons some people were late getting their second dose, and those people's data shows there's no risk.

[fraybentos1]

Just now, eFestivals said:

like I said, the evidence from their trial says that. For whatever reasons some people were late getting their second dose, and those people's data shows there's no risk.

Not just no risk - but a positive impact is it not?

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The medial bods said its fine so its fine! AZ boss said the data bears out the approach yesterday

Also ending the pandemic and lockdown restrictions asap is a GOOD thing. If they've found a way to do it quicker by extending doses, then... thats great 

I have no issues with them extending the doses if the trials confirm it’s safe. I’m just saying that the government like be taking a slight gamble because they are desperate for us to start doing things that benefit them and their mates again. 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The medial bods said its fine so its fine! AZ boss said the data bears out the approach yesterday

Also ending the pandemic and lockdown restrictions asap is a GOOD thing. If they've found a way to do it quicker by extending doses, then... thats great 

yup. A stopped clock is right twice a day, and likewise the tories can sometimes get something right (which they might have done here).

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Also ending the pandemic and lockdown restrictions asap is a GOOD thing. 

Well, you've persuaded me now with that line of argument.

[eFestivals]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

Not just no risk - but a positive impact is it not?

I think you're right but I didn't want to make a claim I wasn't sure about and couldn't be bothered to google for.

[steviewevie]

Going forward it's not likely we'd need two doses a year,  just the single boost?

With all the different vaccines coming online, and then potentially different variants cropping up, it could get confusing!

[zero000]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I have no issues with them extending the doses if the trials confirm it’s safe. I’m just saying that the government like be taking a slight gamble because they are desperate for us to start doing things that benefit them and their mates again. 

Is it not the joint vaccination committee that make these decisions? Not sure how much political influence they would have on these decisions. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yup. A stopped clock is right twice a day, and likewise the tories can sometimes get something right (which they might have done here).

The vaccine programme is the best thing they’ve done since this crisis started. They built a well diversified portfolio of vaccine procurement and indications are that GSK/Sanofi is the only runt in the litter, the others are either already approved or looking good to be approved in the coming weeks in months. We are miles ahead of other European countries in the vaccine rollout thanks to the government going their own way rather than accepting the dither and delay of the European programme which it now sounds like the Germans are also fed up of. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Going forward it's not likely we'd need two doses a year,  just the single boost?

With all the different vaccines coming online, and then potentially different variants cropping up, it could get confusing!

There is no evidence that vaccine immunity runs out after a year. 
 

This will be watched for in the long run. 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Going forward it's not likely we'd need two doses a year,  just the single boost?

it's far from certain we're going to need anything.

Once covid-19 isn't a novel virus, who knows what its mortality rate will be? 

It could be it's no more dangerous than a bad cold for anyone so no jabs are needed. I could be that the oldies need a yearly covid jab. Or it could be we'll all need a yearly jab (or two).

[steviewevie]