Dua Lipa

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Quark said:

Does stuff have to be new or interesting to be any good though?

you could also ask "is stuff that's popular good?"  

[Quark]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

you could also ask "is stuff that's popular good?"  

Different question entirely.  Clearly some stuff that's popular is shite by any objective measure - Teletubbies got to number 1.

You're talking about shite music, which is one thing. Swedge is drawing a direct parallel between that and not being new or interesting, which is linking two things together.

My question is whether he's inferring that something has to be new or interesting to be good.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Depends on how much emphasis you place on innovation*.  I would tend to agree that not everything needs to be on the bleeding edge if the avant garde. There's room for both.  Dont Start Now is a disco track that breaks no new ground and is miles away from any vanguard.  The question is why it should be.

 

* Or, indeed, novelty.

[Quark]

Innovation and novelty absolutely have their place.  As does being interesting.  As does doing something established but doing it well.

All depends on what you want from your music or performance at any given time innit

[CaledonianGonzo]

It's Rosalia that's cranking out the stylistic jawdroppers.

[eFestivals]

32 minutes ago, Quark said:

Different question entirely.  Clearly some stuff that's popular is shite by any objective measure - Teletubbies got to number 1.

You're talking about shite music, which is one thing. Swedge is drawing a direct parallel between that and not being new or interesting, which is linking two things together.

My question is whether he's inferring that something has to be new or interesting to be good.

it depends on the definition of good.

For some people liking it makes it good. For others, they know it's shit and still perhaps like it.

[Hugh Jass]

Just now, eFestivals said:

it depends on the definition of good.

For some people liking it makes it good. For others, they know it's shit and still perhaps like it.

Boils down to how much of a snob you are. Some people can’t look past the idea of pop as not being “proper music” and will criticise it for being mass-produced, inauthentic or cite a lack of innovation...

Others will just get on and enjoy it for what it is.

[fraybentos1]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it depends on the definition of good.

For some people liking it makes it good. For others, they know it's shit and still perhaps like it.

For someone who runs a forum about a music festival you seem to hate almost all music lol

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, fraybentos1 said:

For someone who runs a forum about a music festival you seem to hate almost all music lol

There's music I like, and there's music I don't like  but can still appreciate, and then there's music I think is shit.

Go on, tell me you don't do it like that, because you don't have an internal quality control.  

[Quark]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it depends on the definition of good.

For some people liking it makes it good. For others, they know it's shit and still perhaps like it.

"Good" does cover a pretty wide range of possibilities.  I just think it's important to allow for the differences. Nuance and all that. 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Boils down to how much of a snob you are. Some people can’t look past the idea of pop as not being “proper music” and will criticise it for being mass-produced, inauthentic or cite a lack of innovation...

Others will just get on and enjoy it for what it is.

Nope, different thing to 'snob'. We all have things we think are poorly done, even if we disagree on what those are.

If we say everything on the wrong side of Ellie Goulding is shit, then Dua lives somewhere over there.  

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, Quark said:

"Good" does cover a pretty wide range of possibilities.  I just think it's important to allow for the differences. Nuance and all that. 

then allow me to think it's shit. 

I didn't say no one else is allowed to like it.  

[CaledonianGonzo]

Liking something whilst still thinking it's shit is perilously close to 'guilty pleasures' - which isn't a concept I have much truck with as it's often a product of worrying too much about what other people think, ascribing too much weight to certain gatekeepers or thinking there's a canon of music that is and isn't allowed.

[fraybentos1]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

There's music I like, and there's music I don't like  but can still appreciate, and then there's music I think is shit.

Go on, tell me you don't do it like that, because you don't have an internal quality control.  

I'm not saying I don't find some music shit. But doesn't mean I Need to go in a thread and keep repeating it..

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I'm not saying I don't find some music shit. But doesn't mean I Need to go in a thread and keep repeating it..

it was the first time I'd posted in this thread.  

Everything else has been me standing my ground on being allowed an opinion. 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Liking something whilst still thinking it's shit is perilously close to 'guilty pleasures' - which isn't a concept I have much truck with as it's often a product of worrying too much about what other people think, ascribing too much weight to certain gatekeepers or thinking there's a canon of music that is and isn't allowed.

There's also a gatekeepers thing going on from the music biz side, by what they decide to hype at the public. 

Without that music biz gatekeeper operating we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.  

[fraybentos1]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it was the first time I'd posted in this thread.  

Everything else has been me standing my ground on being allowed an opinion. 

No one's saying you can't have an opinion.

But it's possible to have an opinion that something's shit but not go into a thread about that thing and say it.

[Quark]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

then allow me to think it's shit. 

I didn't say no one else is allowed to like it.  

I never said you weren't allowed to think it's shit! You can think what you like, pretty sure I don't like some of the stuff you do (and "some" is probably being generous ) . I did come back with a snarky comment about you being the arbiter of taste, but I already backed down on that one.

Mine was a general question on the definition of shit and how important being new and interesting are when deciding if something's good or not. And it was a response to Swedge, not directed at you. 

[Quark]

1 minute ago, fraybentos1 said:

No one's saying you can't have an opinion.

But it's possible to have an opinion that something's shit but not go into a thread about that thing and say it.

Wouldn't go that far.  Otherwise any thread about an act just becomes a circle jerk for its fans.

[CaledonianGonzo]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

There's also a gatekeepers thing going on from the music biz side, by what they decide to hype at the public. 

Without that music biz gatekeeper operating we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.  

No argument there.  General scepticism regarding hype isn't a bad thing. 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Quark said:

I never said you weren't allowed to think it's shit!

I didn't say you did. I just used your words as part of a conversation that's more than just you and me.  

[Quark]

Just now, eFestivals said:

I didn't say you did. I just used your words as part of a conversation that's more than just you and me.  

IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!!!!!!!

[henry bear]

20 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

I'm not saying I don't find some music shit. But doesn't mean I Need to go in a thread and keep repeating it..

I hope you’re not a fan of RHCP, Stereophonics, Richard Ashcroft, Mumfords, Kasabian etc etc...

[zero000]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

then I don't need to tell you, do I?  

You could have just said you don’t like pop music 😉

[Hugh Jass]

38 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Nope, different thing to 'snob'. We all have things we think are poorly done, even if we disagree on what those are.

If we say everything on the wrong side of Ellie Goulding is shit, then Dua lives somewhere over there.  

Now now... I think we can all agree that Ellie Goulding is terrible.