Emily vs. The Gammons

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, VCK said:

The music industry - like the film industry - is one of the more liberal industries.

True, but that doesn't mean it's unaffected, or that nudges can't be made to improve things. Women have tended to be pigeonholed (tho there's always exceptions) and that has been pretty-much a self-sustaining thing.

By forcing a broadening over a relatively short time, that should hopefully become the new default. What's not to like? No one is saying you can't keep liking what you like.

[Dave_c]

16 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and yet women are under-represented in many job roles, where it very definitely is because of sexism. Why would music be different?

 

Men are underrepresented in many job roles too. 

[Xeph1995]

I actually cannot beleive this thead, seems like many gammons have had their jimmies rustled.

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Xeph1995

[DJL]

29 minutes ago, Dave_c said:

Men are underrepresented in many job roles too. 

Which roles are generally better paid?

[DJL]

57 minutes ago, VCK said:

Note the 'etc.' There has been countless successful - or at the very least critically acclaimed - female artists throughout music history. I will say that, in the UK anyway, the number of male artists is technically disproportionate as women make up 51% of the population, but there's way too many variables as to why, to draw a simple conclusion of "it's because of sexism."

It’s certainly very complicated but what are the variables and is gender privilege not one of them?

[clarkete]

52 minutes ago, VCK said:

The music industry - like the film industry - is one of the more liberal industries.

Did the metoo movement pass you by?

Even men considered liberal sometimes gratuitously exploit their position at the expense of women lower down the chain. 

[Dave_c]

18 minutes ago, DJL said:

Which roles are generally better paid?

That's irrelevant, the pay gap is not down to gender discrimination.

[Zoo Music Girl]

The fuck is happening in here 

[stuartbert two hats]

Not all inequality is equal.

[Dave_c]

18 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Not all inequality is equal.

Indeed, everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.

[H.M.V]

18 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

The fuck is happening in here 

I know right? I'm pretty much just back from a bit of time out with the hubs and am now sat fucking slack jawed. I don't even know where to begin or respond at this point. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, H.M.V said:

I know right? I'm pretty much just back from a bit of time out with the hubs and am now sat fucking slack jawed. I don't even know where to begin or respond at this point. 

It's even worse than the worst line up thread. And that was pretty bad.

[CaledonianGonzo]

There's only one thing for it:

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Just now, CaledonianGonzo said:

There's only one thing for it:

 

Ha would upvote this if I could! What a song.

[H.M.V]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

It's even worse than the worst line up thread. And that was pretty bad.

Was just talking about it to himself. Easiest way to explain the difference. If I was a young lad or girl in a band and wanted me break through. Thoughts from lad are, really hope we get noticed and signed, lets rock and make them notice us. Music rep turns up, Lad worries, Hope he signs us. Girls worries, hope he signs us and doesn't want a blow job to seal the deal. 

[Dave_c]

3 minutes ago, H.M.V said:

Was just talking about it to himself. Easiest way to explain the difference. If I was a young lad or girl in a band and wanted me break through. Thoughts from lad are, really hope we get noticed and signed, lets rock and make them notice us. Music rep turns up, Lad worries, Hope he signs us. Girls worries, hope he signs us and doesn't want a blow job to seal the deal. 

Bit of a mass generalisation there. So every single man in the industry is a sleazeball who wants sexual favours to promote a female artist? There are literally no decent men in the world who would promote and sign a female artist on merit? Come on.

[H.M.V]

1 minute ago, Dave_c said:

Bit of a mass generalisation there. So every single man in the industry is a sleazeball who wants sexual favours to promote a female artist? There are literally no decent men in the world who would promote and sign a female artist on merit? Come on.

Typical fucking not all men response. No, that is not what I said at all. You do realise I have a lovely man husband? Wouldn't get far if I had that attitude would i?

No, what I AM saying is that everyone woman has had that fucking experience? Get it? 

[danmarks]

Apart from all the blokes who hadl to pleasure managers , not overly sure brian epstein was demanding blow jobs fron cilla, or larry parnes was after much female company. Kit lambert was very much a no woman man but happy to use his persuasive technique. Joe meek. 

[H.M.V]

Just now, danmarks said:

Apart from all the blokes who hadl to pleasure managers , not overly sure brian epstein was demanding blow jobs fron cilla, or larry parnes was after much female company. Kit lambert was very much a no woman man but happy to use his persuasive technique. Joe meek. 

Oh so all successful women who had gay managers have never met another man looking for something in the industry? Do me a fucking favour. 

[H.M.V]

Just to add this thread is a real eye opening arsehole detector. 

[Dave_c]

4 minutes ago, H.M.V said:

Typical fucking not all men response. No, that is not what I said at all. You do realise I have a lovely man husband? Wouldn't get far if I had that attitude would i?

No, what I AM saying is that everyone woman has had that fucking experience? Get it? 

Calm down, no need to shout your mouth of with expletives to make your point. And how do you know that every woman has had that experience? Have you asked them all or are you just making another assumption based on the narrative that is being pushed in every corner of the media at the moment?

I don't doubt that some men have exploited being in a position of power, but I also don't doubt that women in positions of power exploit it too. 

[VCK]

1 hour ago, DJL said:

It’s certainly very complicated but what are the variables and is gender privilege not one of them?

Of course it is. My point was that because there's too many possibilities to consider, it's hard to simply and conclusively par it down to sexism.

58 minutes ago, clarkete said:

Did the metoo movement pass you by?

Even men considered liberal sometimes gratuitously exploit their position at the expense of women lower down the chain. 

It didn't. But in more liberal industries - such as entertainment - women are more likely to be represented than elsewhere. The abuse stories, as sickening as they were, don't really say much about how well women in film in general are represented either way. They just say that some horrible men are willing to sexually exploit women to further their careers.

Edited April 3, 2019 by VCK

[danmarks]

Absolutely not what im saying. Im just trying to point out its not always as clear cut as can be interpreted. Yes mostly women will be the ones hit on or expecting to give more than theor talent but not exclusively. It doesnt diminsh any argument but to say to some one male - it only happens to women -you must be mistaken or you'd love it anyway (not the music industry now) can raise heckles.

[H.M.V]

5 minutes ago, Dave_c said:

Calm down, no need to shout your mouth of with expletives to make your point. And how do you know that every woman has had that experience? Have you asked them all or are you just making another assumption based on the narrative that is being pushed in every corner of the media at the moment?

I don't doubt that some men have exploited being in a position of power, but I also don't doubt that women in positions of power exploit it too. 

Calm down dear, no need to get your knickers in a twist about language. It's just locker room talk. 

Ask anyone woman, any woman and they will regale you with many stories of being wolf whistled while only being a teenager, being touched, arse being groped on the train or a bar. a sly brush against the breasts, being kissed against their will, lewd comments made and then at least 20% of them will also regale you with the stories of their rape. 

Music and movie industries having some of the worst predators because they were protected. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

14 minutes ago, H.M.V said:

Just to add this thread is a real eye opening arsehole detector. 

I admire you but I just can't bring myself to get into this shit with people.