In the loop?

[stuartbert two hats]

18 minutes ago, Penrhos said:

I'm a great believer in what "the loop" are trying to achieve. If it saves one life or prevents one hospitalization then having them on site is 100% justified.

 

Some people will take drugs regardless of the legallity of their actions, so the risk needs to be minimised and information about what's in circulation needs broadcasting.

 

The government are supposed to protect the public - so why has the UK currently got record numbers of people dying from drug use?

 

Because prohibition fails to protect anything apart from a criminals profit margin and GW Pharmacuticles monopoly (Which the PM & several senior MP's are shareholders in).

 

"Some" is quite an understatement!

[RichardWaller]

10 hours ago, incident said:

Head over to YouTube, and watch the film "Boomtown on drugs". Yes, it's one sided, but I don't honestly see that there even is another side in this situation - everyone agrees that less dead people is a good thing. The only argument against testing I've heard anyone try to make is "It'll encourage drug taking". Well so what if it does, basic logic says that 10,000 people taking something with 0 of them in the hospital or dead is better than 5,000 people taking drugs with 10 of them in the hospital or dead.

Can’t really see that, myself. Surely if you’re at the point of approaching a drug testing tent or whatever, you’ve already decided you’re going to take drugs? Strongly doubt that there’ll be anyone turning up there who’s never taken owt, who can be encouraged to take drugs even they never have?

Yeah, anything that has the potential to save lives is a good idea.

[amfy]

2 hours ago, RichardWaller said:

Can’t really see that, myself. Surely if you’re at the point of approaching a drug testing tent or whatever, you’ve already decided you’re going to take drugs? Strongly doubt that there’ll be anyone turning up there who’s never taken owt, who can be encouraged to take drugs even they never have?

Yeah, anything that has the potential to save lives is a good idea.

It could be that someone who mightn’t otherwise take drugs could decide to on the basis that they can check the safety of them. In my younger days I could have been this person. 

Due to the size of Glastonbury they will need 2-3 tents I think. One down by or in SE corner, & then maybe the opposite corner by Silver Hayes, & potentially up by The Park as well. The queues for it at Boomtown were always long, & that give potential for people to sack off the idea and risk it anyway if they have to wait too long.

[bamber]

It may or may not come as a surprise, but I've never taken a class A drug in my life.

I'm all for testing though, Those who choose to partake, whatever age, will choose to partake. No increased risk of harm can come from knowing what you have been sold from a dodgy scouser/other city natives also sell drugs.

[glastolover19]

39 minutes ago, amfy said:

It could be that someone who mightn’t otherwise take drugs could decide to on the basis that they can check the safety of them. In my younger days I could have been this person. 

Due to the size of Glastonbury they will need 2-3 tents I think. One down by or in SE corner, & then maybe the opposite corner by Silver Hayes, & potentially up by The Park as well. The queues for it at Boomtown were always long, & that give potential for people to sack off the idea and risk it anyway if they have to wait too long.

Exactly my opinion, someone who was airing on the side of caution in regards to taking decides to because they have been tested therefore classed as "safe" then on the other hand if you're a consenting adult then ultimately it's up to you but hopefully with the testing your be able to make a more informed choice.

[Penrhos]

24 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

Exactly my opinion, someone who was airing on the side of caution in regards to taking decides to because they have been tested therefore classed as "safe" then on the other hand if you're a consenting adult then ultimately it's up to you but hopefully with the testing your be able to make a more informed choice.

I think you're missing the point - "The loop" will never say that any drug is safe to take, they will just test what is presented and provide an analysis of what it contains. 

What they will do is provide warnings to the public and organizers if there are especially dangerous drugs in circulation (very strong or contaminated) like PMA being sold as MDMA. If they were seen as "promoting drug use" then they could be prosecuted and would never get a license to perform testing in the first place.

 

It all boils down to the facts that prohibition does not work, criminalizing drug users does not work, media hysteria doesn't work,  unnecessary drug deaths do not work.

Only Education, Information, and in the lack of a legal regulated market - drug testing work!

 Also don't forget that if alcohol was ranked the same way as prohibited drugs are it would be "Class-A" due to the harms it causes.

 

Pen : "Gets off high-horse and sits in garden with a beer and a smoke".

[Miesh]

44 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

Exactly my opinion, someone who was airing on the side of caution in regards to taking decides to because they have been tested therefore classed as "safe" then on the other hand if you're a consenting adult then ultimately it's up to you but hopefully with the testing your be able to make a more informed choice.

I'm sure I read somewhere stats on how many people decide not to take their drugs after testing*. Also information is provided on harm reduction.

*I had a quick Google but I can't find it and I'm too tired to keep looking. I've had a heavy weekend ?

[glastolover19]

1 hour ago, Penrhos said:

I think you're missing the point - "The loop" will never say that any drug is safe to take, they will just test what is presented and provide an analysis of what it contains. 

What they will do is provide warnings to the public and organizers if there are especially dangerous drugs in circulation (very strong or contaminated) like PMA being sold as MDMA. If they were seen as "promoting drug use" then they could be prosecuted and would never get a license to perform testing in the first place.

 

It all boils down to the facts that prohibition does not work, criminalizing drug users does not work, media hysteria doesn't work,  unnecessary drug deaths do not work.

Only Education, Information, and in the lack of a legal regulated market - drug testing work!

 Also don't forget that if alcohol was ranked the same way as prohibited drugs are it would be "Class-A" due to the harms it causes.

 

Pen : "Gets off high-horse and sits in garden with a beer and a smoke".

I understand how it works and that's why I put it as "safe" I know that in no way would the loop say you should take something. However someone who was on the fence wether to take or not maybe swayed by the info regarding purity etc but like I said, if that person decides to partake then I'd rather they did it with all info to make their own free informed choice

Also totally agree with you on alcohol,personally think it's hands down the worst

Edited November 4, 2018 by glastolover19

[glastolover19]

1 hour ago, Miesh said:

I'm sure I read somewhere stats on how many people decide not to take their drugs after testing*. Also information is provided on harm reduction.

*I had a quick Google but I can't find it and I'm too tired to keep looking. I've had a heavy weekend ?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thetab.com/uk/leeds/2018/08/18/drug-testing-at-festivals-is-it-actually-working-43231/amp

[Miesh]

1 hour ago, glastolover19 said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thetab.com/uk/leeds/2018/08/18/drug-testing-at-festivals-is-it-actually-working-43231/amp

Thank you! ?

[chatty]

No brained really. We were talking with one of the stewards last year who'd come to check if I was alright because I was having a bit relax on the floor at Avalon. 

I was fine and just tired so had a but lay down as you do but he said there was loads who had passed out on a bad batch of MDMA and had to be sent to hospital over the weekend. 

Weekend ruined when they could have had it tested and likelihood is they would have wrote it off as a bad deal and just went and had a good time without (or sourced something else). 

Can't really see a downside to it. It's a festival and people take drugs at festivals whether you'd like them too or not, may as well make it as safe for everyone as possible. 

[bamber]

1 hour ago, chatty said:

No brained really. We were talking with one of the stewards last year who'd come to check if I was alright because I was having a bit relax on the floor at Avalon. 

I was fine and just tired so had a but lay down as you do but he said there was loads who had passed out on a bad batch of MDMA and had to be sent to hospital over the weekend. 

Weekend ruined when they could have had it tested and likelihood is they would have wrote it off as a bad deal and just went and had a good time without (or sourced something else). 

Can't really see a downside to it. It's a festival and people take drugs at festivals whether you'd like them too or not, may as well make it as safe for everyone as possible. 

Indeed, no downside to testing. It seems to me that folk are taking way less of this stuff anyway, so  make it is safer for those who remain.

[bennyhana22]

5 minutes ago, bamber said:

Indeed, no downside to testing. It seems to me that folk are taking way less of this stuff anyway, so  make it is safer for those who remain.

Erm...

Have you been to Boomtown...?

?

Ben

[mashedonmud]

3 minutes ago, bennyhana22 said:

Erm...

Have you been to Boomtown...?

?

Ben

Or outdoors ?

[bamber]

Boomtown had an Awesome lineup this year to be sure and I could have gone

The weather was shit though.

I should have gone, but I'm a sorta' Glastonbury purist.

Nothing else wil do.

[bamber]

Bamber X

[zero000]

The argument for on-site drug testing is pretty compelling from a harm reduction point of view. Providing the means for people to make an informed choice about what they put into their body makes common sense.

As for the argument that in may increase drug use, I can't help feel there are parallels with abstinence only sexual education, and we all know how effective that is...  

My only hesitance around it is the lack of data around drug testing at festivals, e.g. does it really reduce the risk of adverse outcomes for people using drugs, or are the concerns about increasing drug use born out by the data. Nice opportunity for a naturalistic experiment for someone in public health if testing becomes more common place perhaps.

[Penrhos]

Either I've become more observent or blatent class-A use/abuse seems to be everywhere.

I've been going to gigs for longer than some members on here have been born.

In the 80's there was plenty of hash, thai-weed and old school weed and occasionally some LSD and even then the quality was all over the shop, hash would be cut with brick dust, henna and the like. But it was all taken out of sight and there would be the occasional death.

I remember when the first MDMA arrived on the scene, but drug use was still fairly discreet and the death rates were still quite low.

Fast forwards to last week - I was at a gig and at least 20 people around me were snorting coke, even though it was an indoor gig with no smoking you could smell weed and I saw two people being carried out completely spangled - and this was on a Tuesday. Death rates are at the highest figures recorded for drug use.

This is what over 30 years of failed government policy and prohibition have achieved and why either a regulated legal market or front of house drug testing is the only way forwards.

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, Penrhos said:

Either I've become more observent or blatent class-A use/abuse seems to be everywhere.

I've been going to gigs for longer than some members on here have been born.

In the 80's there was plenty of hash, thai-weed and old school weed and occasionally some LSD and even then the quality was all over the shop, hash would be cut with brick dust, henna and the like. But it was all taken out of sight and there would be the occasional death.

I remember when the first MDMA arrived on the scene, but drug use was still fairly discreet and the death rates were still quite low.

Fast forwards to last week - I was at a gig and at least 20 people around me were snorting coke, even though it was an indoor gig with no smoking you could smell weed and I saw two people being carried out completely spangled - and this was on a Tuesday. Death rates are at the highest figures recorded for drug use.

This is what over 30 years of failed government policy and prohibition have achieved and why either a regulated legal market or front of house drug testing is the only way forwards.

What was the gig and where? I've not seen anyone hammering the class As on the occasional midweek gig in Manchester. But then again, if I'm watching a band that would benefit from class As, I won't see them midweek.

[Nice hymer]

5 hours ago, chatty said:

No brained really. We were talking with one of the stewards last year who'd come to check if I was alright because I was having a bit relax on the floor at Avalon. 

I was fine and just tired so had a but lay down as you do but he said there was loads who had passed out on a bad batch of MDMA and had to be sent to hospital over the weekend. 

Weekend ruined when they could have had it tested and likelihood is they would have wrote it off as a bad deal and just went and had a good time without (or sourced something else). 

Can't really see a downside to it. It's a festival and people take drugs at festivals whether you'd like them too or not, may as well make it as safe for everyone as possible. 

I saw two people collapse and fall unconscious in the space of an hour, between Avalon and SE Corner entrance.

The stewards and paramedics were awesome, both casualties were only slightly old than my kids, it was a harsh reminder of how risky it can be.

Can't help but think that we'd see less harm if testing and information was widely available on-site...

[Penrhos]

Artic Monkeys at Birmingham NIA but I've been to gigs at Notts FM arena, NEC a couple of O2's this year and seen the same behaviour.

 

It seems the mindset has changed from taking drugs to "enhance" a night out to "lets go out and get smashed".

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Penrhos

[stuartbert two hats]

4 minutes ago, Penrhos said:

Artic Monkeys at Birmingham NIA but I've been to gigs at Notts FM arena, NEC a couple of O2's this year and seen the same behaviour.

 

It seems the mindset has changed from taking drugs to "enhance" a night out to "lets go out and get smashed".

 

I suppose you have to do something to make an Arctic Monkeys gig interesting.

[Penrhos]

9 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I suppose you have to do something to make an Arctic Monkeys gig interesting.

Bearing in mind the could be a headliner next year...

 

Here's another question - do you think that the increased EDM presence at Glasto has caused increased class-a consumption on site?

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, Penrhos said:

Bearing in mind the could be a headliner next year...

 

Here's another question - do you think that the increased EDM presence at Glasto has caused increased class-a consumption on site?

Probably, although it's been a major thing in some parts of the site since before the dance tent. There were certainly plenty of swivel eyed loons about in 1997, my first year.

I notice a lot less weed being smoked these days though.

[semmtexx]

The worst aspect of the law around illicit drug use is in almost all circumstances the law will harm you more than the drug itself. Convictions for prohibited drugs invariably cause more harm then the drug itself. A mate of a mate got caught slipping another mate a pill. Got convicted of dealing. Totally screwing his life chances for ever. That's for giving a mate a drug that's statistically safer than riding horses. Great. 

So yes, testing and education plus legalisation or at least decriminalisation for personal use. Education being a massive part here. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by semmtexx