Incident in London

[Mr.Tease]

8 minutes ago, Teddington said:

I agree.  We should leave well alone. 

Of course it will lead to dictators like Saadam and  Gadaffi torturing/killing/gassing their own people, but it's their business eh?

More people have died since we helped topple those dickhead dictators - I think as barbaric as those regimes are, failed states are worse because the killing is endless, you have no one to negotiate with, pressure or contain and they're more dangerous for us because they create safe spaces with vague borders for ISIS to operate, enrich themselves and groom cretins and psychopaths. 

[Mr.Tease]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Fuck this shit.

Perfect summary 

[MilkyJoe]

8 minutes ago, Teddington said:

I agree.  We should leave well alone. 

Of course it will lead to dictators like Saadam and  Gadaffi torturing/killing/gassing their own people, but it's their business eh?

Not sure I quite understand your beef with me here or the need for downvoting my comment. I never said anything about leaving well alone, I simply observed that Western foreign policy hadn't gone down well in the Middle East. (which incidentally is somewhere that I have worked on and off for the last 19 years).

However, since you seem to need to make it an issue, those countries are in a much better state now eh?

[MilkyJoe]

7 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Fuck this shit.

Yeah, pretty much this!

[stuartbert two hats]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

More people have died since we helped topple those dickhead dictators - I think as barbaric as those regimes are, failed states are worse because the killing is endless, you have no one to negotiate with, pressure or contain and they're more dangerous for us because they create safe spaces with vague borders for ISIS to operate, enrich themselves and groom cretins and psychopaths. 

This.  ISIS formed in the US prisons in Iraq.  It was a really great way for all the maddest fuckers in the world to meet up without fear of military attack. 

[Half Man Half Mattress]

17 minutes ago, Teddington said:

I agree.  We should leave well alone. 

Of course it will lead to dictators like Saadam and  Gadaffi torturing/killing/gassing their own people, but it's their business eh?

Who armed Saadam in the first place? And the Taliban. And the Saudis who are bombing the hell out of innocents in Yemen. We're up to our knees in this shit.

[Charm]

4 hours ago, Lucy92 said:

I was having a meal last night in borough market and was going to stay for a few drinks before going to London Bridge and catching my train home. I wasn't feeling well so we left early and must have just missed the attack. Had we stayed, I'd have been in the exact place that attack happened. Feeling a bit sick. 

Glad to hear you are safe, sending you lots of hugs. 

Charm x

[arcade fireman]

22 minutes ago, Teddington said:

I agree.  We should leave well alone. 

Of course it will lead to dictators like Saadam and  Gadaffi torturing/killing/gassing their own people, but it's their business eh?

I agree. Getting rid of Saddam and Gadaffi worked wonders for that region didn't it!

Have a read about the LIFG, who supported them and their links to what happened in Manchester. This isn't conspiracy theory stuff, it's pretty well established. Things are nowhere near as black and white as you'd like to think they are. 

Why aren't we getting rid of Kim Jong Un? Mugabe? 

[Lucy92]

5 minutes ago, Charm said:

Glad to hear you are safe, sending you lots of hugs. 

Charm x

Just seen the restaurant we were at was placed on lockdown, one of the bars I planned to go to was on the news with police evacuating people and telling them to get down and another it looks like people were stabbed outside. Just so lucky we left when we did! Can't imagine what it must have been like to be there. I was saying last night to my family on the train home I was sorry I wasn't well and had to leave. Not sorry anymore!!!!

Edited June 4, 2017 by Lucy92

[Charm]

1 minute ago, Lucy92 said:

Just seen the restaurant we were at was placed on lockdown, one of the bars I planned to go to was on the news with police evacuating people and telling them to get down and another it looks like people were stabbed outside. Just so lucky we left when we did! Can't imagine what it must have been like to be there. 

That's so awful, you must feel sick, I was there with my daughter a couple of days ago and I'm taking her to a gig tonight, this can't stop the fun times we have in our amazing city. 

Charm x

[Franky]

55 minutes ago, guypjfreak said:

Good point and I started this thread but as it was happening I thought people should know.. I suppose it's human nature plus our need for instant news.. 

I do agree that the news channels could focus on it less but again it's news and even if you agree or disagree with your statement I'm sure nearly everyone will be watching the news.. It would be better if they changed the word terrorist to cowards or nutters or something.. Cos they are nutters..

I mean Wot do you do hey Bob hey tim why don't we hire a van drive to London and kill some folks... Hell yea why not and let's strap tin cans to ourselves so we look even more mad  Oooo and we're going to die as well everyone OK with that .... Init how the fuck does that happen what the fuck must you be on to have such a mad idea and think it's right.. 

Call them nutters, cowards.. Not terrorist there just sick idiots who for some reason want to die and feel they have to take innocent people with them.. 

Neil old son if you feel like this thread should be taken down.. No worries 

Stay safe people look out for each other 

Guy 

I wasn't saying it should be taken down bud, just the contents of it should be more supportive of the victims rather than us debating something that there isn't actually an answer to.

Anyways peace out all, in 3 weeks time we will all be surrounded by love and fun I can't wait !

[Lucy92]

2 minutes ago, Charm said:

That's so awful, you must feel sick, I was there with my daughter a couple of days ago and I'm taking her to a gig tonight, this can't stop the fun times we have in our amazing city. 

Charm x

It won't stop me going  just hits home a bit. Have fun at the gig tonight! 

[dartmoordog]

[Sasperella]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned on another thread, my heads too all over the place thinking about this incident and Manchester to look through everything, but the security at Field Day in London was interesting.

They asked you to show your ticket way infront of the start of the queue, and then let you pass with the barcode. Then you very quickly went through metal detection, again no queue. In the security line there was one sniffer dog whereas in previous years there have been a few, and they didnt waste time patting people down looking for drugs. At all. Just asked people not to bring bags and if they did briefly looked in each one. Clearly not looking for drugs at all. It very much felt like this was to get the queues down fast so they didnt have big groups of people waiting around by an entrance in victoria park. In a way, the drug security seemed more lax than my friends and I could ever remember it being at any festival or big club (other than glastonbury), but i think as they're just looking for bombs and weapons this allows everything to move faster, and makes everyone safer. I felt reassured anyway, although this was before the events later that evening so I'm not sure if this would change things. I suspect not? 

[elbongo]

43 minutes ago, Half Man Half Mattress said:

Who armed Saadam in the first place? And the Taliban. And the Saudis who are bombing the hell out of innocents in Yemen. We're up to our knees in this shit.

Deeper than that... 

No way can acts such as this can be in any way defended. Of course not. But the UK and historically before that Britain, have royally fucked the world over. 

[eFestivals]

45 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

I agree. Getting rid of Saddam and Gadaffi worked wonders for that region didn't it!

I'll just point out that Gadaffi was being taken down with or without our involvement, and that the country would be in no less chaos if we'd not got involved. 

And just around here we can see some posts condemning the UK for supporting the despot Saudi regime when the solution in Libya can have only been to support the despot regime.

I'm not suggesting the west hasn't helped agitate and create space for some of this to happen, but there's waaaaay more than that to it, and anyway 'not doing it' is only the solution when you haven't yet done it.

Now it's done there's places where big threats can build and be exported to here, and saying "if we're nice to you will you be nice to us?" isn't going to do it.

Edited June 4, 2017 by eFestivals

[Teddington]

1 hour ago, MilkyJoe said:

Not sure I quite understand your beef with me here or the need for downvoting my comment. I never said anything about leaving well alone, I simply observed that Western foreign policy hadn't gone down well in the Middle East. (which incidentally is somewhere that I have worked on and off for the last 19 years).

However, since you seem to need to make it an issue, those countries are in a much better state now eh?

I didn't downvote anything.

I also don't necessarily disagree with your point.

I am just pointing out that every decision that you make/don't make has consequences.  It's not quite as simple as "we should not bomb Iraq" or "we should bomb the **** out of them".

 

[jonodillieono]

35 minutes ago, Sasperella said:

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned on another thread, my heads too all over the place thinking about this incident and Manchester to look through everything, but the security at Field Day in London was interesting.

They asked you to show your ticket way infront of the start of the queue, and then let you pass with the barcode. Then you very quickly went through metal detection, again no queue. In the security line there was one sniffer dog whereas in previous years there have been a few, and they didnt waste time patting people down looking for drugs. At all. Just asked people not to bring bags and if they did briefly looked in each one. Clearly not looking for drugs at all. It very much felt like this was to get the queues down fast so they didnt have big groups of people waiting around by an entrance in victoria park. In a way, the drug security seemed more lax than my friends and I could ever remember it being at any festival or big club (other than glastonbury), but i think as they're just looking for bombs and weapons this allows everything to move faster, and makes everyone safer. I felt reassured anyway, although this was before the events later that evening so I'm not sure if this would change things. I suspect not? 

Was similar security last week for steel yard in the same place. However they had 2 dogs which were sniffing fucking everything. We were getting fed through single file past one of them and the dog ran off on its own to the back of the queue to a specific person. He was dragged off and strip searched.

This happened to between about 5-10 people by the time we got in. Never seen a dog this on the ball before

[arcade fireman]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'll just point out that Gadaffi was being taken down with or without our involvement, and that the country would be in no less chaos if we'd not got involved. 

And just around here we can see some posts condemning the UK for supporting the despot Saudi regime when the solution in Libya can have only been to support the despot regime.

I'm not suggesting the west hasn't helped agitate and create space for some of this to happen, but there's waaaaay more than that to it, and anyway 'not doing it' is only the solution when you haven't yet done it.

Now it's done there's places where big threats can build and be exported to here, and saying "if we're nice to you will you be nice to us?" isn't going to do it.

Of course, but the original post was claiming the reason we went into wars in these countries was to remove those dictators for the things they did to their own people - and implied the good of this outweighed anything else. That's clearly rubbish. 

There was a big internal struggle against Gadaffi true, but there's plenty of evidence that our government actively supported the LIFG. There's also plenty of evidence that the power vacuum in some of these countries has helped ISIS to flourish. 

The bit of my post you didn't quote has clearly said things are far more complicated, but to claim that our interventions in the Middle East were done out of a concern for what these dictators were doing to their own people just isn't true.

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by arcade fireman

[Matt42]

Hi guys, unfortunately, I was in central london at the time of the attack. Me and some randomers who were going to the same sort of place got into a taxi and split the fare as tubes and buses were not running.

Hope all my other folk in London got home safe, feel bad for the field day lot who were close to being stranded x

[squirrelarmy]

It seems last nights incident could have been a lot worse if not for the quick response of the police. The attackers were all wearing explosives which they weren't able to detonate due to them being shot quite quickly after the initial attack.

We may be frustrated by police efforts when it comes to drugs but great work to them last night running into danger and saving a lot more lives.

Edited June 4, 2017 by squirrelarmy

[Ommadawn]

5 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

It seems last nights incident could have been a lot worse if not for the quick response of the police. The attackers were all wearing explosives which they weren't able to detonate due to them being shot quite quickly after the initial attack.

We may be frustrated to police efforts when it comes to drugs but great work to them last night running into danger and saving a lot more lives.

The explosive vests were fake thankfully.

[Lucy92]

1 minute ago, Ommadawn said:

The explosive vests were fake thankfully.

Probably to stop people getting close for fear of them being real. Makes me sick. 

[bsolxiv]

Can we move this thread? Not very Glastonbury-related. 

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, Ommadawn said:

The explosive vests were fake thankfully.

That makes the effort even more amateurish and shows the desperation of the attackers even more.

RIP to those lost.