This morning...

[russycarps]

Yes, i cry for the loss of Obama's drone war and the normalisation of extrajudicial killings.

[fatyeti24]

On 22/11/2016 at 2:46 PM, Homer said:

This song is such an awesome 'response' to those tw@ts that vandalised MCA's memorial.

Especially as MCA himself (unless I'm mistaken - I'm sure he's the one with the deeper voice) opens up with:

Brownstones, water towers, trees, skyscrapers
Writers, prize fighters and Wall Street traders
We come together on the subway cars
Diversity unified, whoever you are

 

I was in that park about three weeks ago

[Homer]

On 11/26/2016 at 9:26 AM, fatyeti24 said:

I was in that park about three weeks ago

 

Pre-vanadlisation right? Were you on a pilgrimage? If so, good work!

[Superscally]

Quite appropriately, I was in Tombstone on election night. Bar owner bought everyone celebratory shot when the writing was on the wall. Like an old style News of the World reporter, we made our excuses and left.

[The Nal]

7 hours ago, Superscally said:

Quite appropriately, I was in Tombstone on election night. 

Ha now way! Doubt Hillary got one vote from there

[Untz]

7 hours ago, Superscally said:

Quite appropriately, I was in Tombstone on election night. Bar owner bought everyone celebratory shot when the writing was on the wall. Like an old style News of the World reporter, we made our excuses and left.

But you had the shot, right?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

this as part of a series of tweets whinging about Jill Stein's recount efforts. Saying there shouldn't be recounts whilst at the same time admitting there were millions of illegal votes seems legit.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Zac Quinn

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

this as part of a series of tweets whinging about Jill Stein's recount efforts. Saying there shouldn't be recounts whilst at the same time admitting there were millions of illegal votes seems legit.

while it can't sensibly be argued that recounts shouldn't be allowed, there should also be a decent argument to suggest the need of one - and from voter analysis it looks like there's little to justify the wisconsin recount. While the Greens have picked up on a supposed inconsistency, closer and more-expert analysis is saying the Greens have it wrong.

I'd be very pleased if a recount ended up changing the legitmate result, but if it doesn't show much difference it ends up looking like bad losing - which I suspect might impact into things beyond just this election.

edit: with as recount ruled out (via the rules) in one of the states they need a recount in, it's also a dead duck.

Edited November 29, 2016 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

while it can't sensibly be argued that recounts shouldn't be allowed, there should also be a decent argument to suggest the need of one - and from voter analysis it looks like there's little to justify the wisconsin recount. While the Greens have picked up on a supposed inconsistency, closer and more-expert analysis is saying the Greens have it wrong.

I'd be very pleased if a recount ended up changing the legitmate result, but if it doesn't show much difference it ends up looking like bad losing - which I suspect might impact into things beyond just this election.

edit: with as recount ruled out (via the rules) in one of the states they need a recount in, it's also a dead duck.

Its the Greens leading this to get their vote share higher. Clinton's campaign lawyer has already said its a recount they dont want

[eFestivals]

35 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Its the Greens leading this to get their vote share higher. Clinton's campaign lawyer has already said its a recount they dont want

the greens are leading this for fuck all to do with their own vote, it's because they don't like the result.

Everything they're doing around recounts is about trying to diminish the votes for Trump. It's fucking clear by them only wanting recounts in swing states. FFS.

They believe they've identified an anomoly in the voting patterns, that (ITO) shows a greater amount of support for Trump than they think should be the case via some particular demographics. If you followed more than morons on twitter, you'd know the Greens have said this themselves.

And you'd also know that professional voter analysts say the Greens are mistaken, and that they're failing to account for another demographic.

But hey, twitter is where you find all truth. Who needs facts? 

Edited November 29, 2016 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

More economic anxiety from Trump supporters

Trump's proposals towards flag burning Bigly facist

 

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, zahidf said:

More economic anxiety from Trump supporters

 

you really flagging up the most tenuous and irrelevant things.

It seems to have passed you by entirely that Trump isn't yet in power.

And I suggest you try filming the old bill in this country arresting someone, and see how peaceful they are about it.

All you're doing is showing that you're no more accepting of different opinions than the very worst Trumper.

 

 

Quote

Trump's proposals towards flag burning Bigly facist

 

Even in this country where we do "national pride" to a hugely lesser extent than the USA does you can find (comparitively) moderate politicians take the same angle.

Lookie, here's a tory taking a similar line:-
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11008/British-Muslims-burn-flag-in-Rushdie-row

When you spot something abnormal, get back to us.

PS: I doubt being a sheep to others on twitter is where you'll find anything useful.

Edited November 29, 2016 by eFestivals

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

you really flagging up the most tenuous and irrelevant things.

It seems to have passed you by entirely that Trump isn't yet in power.

And I suggest you try filming the old bill in this country arresting someone, and see how peaceful they are about it.

All you're doing is showing that you're no more accepting of different opinions than the very worst Trumper.

 

 

Even in this country where we do "national pride" to a hugely lesser extent than the USA does you can find (comparitively) moderate politicians take the same angle.

Lookie, here's a tory taking a similar line:-
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11008/British-Muslims-burn-flag-in-Rushdie-row

When you spot something abnormal, get back to us.

PS: I doubt being a sheep to others on twitter is where you'll find anything useful.

ok, the first link was a tiny bit unfair. He may not have been a trump supporter.

Uk police dont electrocute old people in wheelchairs do they??? Just for filming them?

Its one thing a random Tory Mp saying there may be an offence against flag burning. Its another when the president of the united states is suggesting exile or a long jail sentence for it.

[russycarps]

I dont think you realise just how patriotic americans are. In schools they sing the national anthem, america the beautiful, or some other "murica is great" type song before classes begin. Every sporting event begins with the national anthem. The stars and stripes flag is EVERYWHERE.

I suspect trumps views are on flag burning is shared by the vast majority of americans. And not just the whites. The pride they have in their country is beyond the comprehension of us jaded brits.

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by russycarps

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Uk police dont electrocute old people in wheelchairs do they??? Just for filming them?

UK police do whatever the fuck they fancy doing, just like they do in the USA. The legality or not doesn't necessarily come into it.

Thankfully we have different cultures around that sort of thing, as well as different everyday-cultures (guns in the USA), so it tends not to come out as violent and extreme and as far away from what might be the letter of the law on this side of the pond (tho that difference also causes us to think USA police as more extreme than US citizens are likely to think them).

But, here's a link - and in the Daily Mail - to UK old bill tipping a political protester out of his wheelchair for no reason:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1338480/Jody-McIntyre-Video-police-tipping-wheelchair-tuition-fees-protest.html

I personally know tens of people who've been threatened or assaulted or arrested by UK old bill for trying to photo or video the old bill doing anything or nothing. It's a long way from uncommon, they don't like a photographic record because it increases the chances of any come-back being pinned onto them.

18 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Its one thing a random Tory Mp saying there may be an offence against flag burning. Its another when the president of the united states is suggesting exile or a long jail sentence for it.

The tory MP said "It is not an offence to burn the flag of St George, though perhaps it should be". It's not very different from Trump's musings that it shouldn't be allowed.

Trump goes further and gives his ideas of possible sentences for that, tho it's clear they're not his fixed thoughts on it by the words he uses. As I'm guessing he's reacting to something which had just happened, him not having fully formed thoughts about it isn't surprising. The only thing unusual is that it's a politician putting out not fully considered thoughts, when they're normally more disciplined.

Perhaps ill-considered-ideas-by-twitter is going to be the new normal for govts in a world where twitter has taken hold - and why should that be an outrage when we already have ill-considered-opinion-by-twitter as some like to demonstrate.

[The Nal]

Theres been no Ferguson, Missouri or North Carolina repeat since Trump was elected. Hes already achieved greatness and shown Obama up.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

while it can't sensibly be argued that recounts shouldn't be allowed, there should also be a decent argument to suggest the need of one - and from voter analysis it looks like there's little to justify the wisconsin recount. While the Greens have picked up on a supposed inconsistency, closer and more-expert analysis is saying the Greens have it wrong.

I'd be very pleased if a recount ended up changing the legitmate result, but if it doesn't show much difference it ends up looking like bad losing - which I suspect might impact into things beyond just this election.

edit: with as recount ruled out (via the rules) in one of the states they need a recount in, it's also a dead duck.

The ramifications of Hillary becoming president 'by the back door' would be pretty serious for 'Merica's already delicate social fabric too, though - the damage of that would probably be longer lasting than any damage Trump could realistically do in his four years. her campaign have definitely taken the right approach by saying "well we didn't want to have a recount, but if you insist, I guess we'll support it in the name of democracy.." - absolves her of most of the blame if she becomes president and it has catastrophic consequences, and means she (and by extension the Dems) avoid looking like a sore loser if it comes to nothing.

the bigger issue really is Trump's iffy stance on it, especially after all the noise he made pre-election about what he'd do in the instance of a result he deemed unfair.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Zac Quinn

[Superscally]

11 hours ago, Untz said:

But you had the shot, right?

I wanted to, but was outvoted by my party...

[The Nal]

Michigan gone to Trump too. 306 to 232. 

[bamber]

On 26/11/2016 at 8:19 AM, russycarps said:

Yes, i cry for the loss of Obama's drone war and the normalisation of extrajudicial killings.

The thing that complicates this is the simple fact that the guys targeted in these "extrajudicial killings" are not the good guys. They are mostly murderers, serial murders, mass murders, rapists, serial rapists, instigators of murder and rape and suicide bombing. Be-headers, serial be-headers, instigators of be-heading, for example.

Now, here's a thought experiment, I give you the keys to my time travel drone, and I send you back to the summer and give you control of the drone hovering above an apartment block in Nice, where one occupant has hired a truck and is going to use it to kill 86 people the next day, You have your finger on the button. Do you press it? Other innocent people may die if you do, but you will save 86 lives?

This is the dilemma that Obama and H. Clinton have faced on a regular basis for the last eight years.

I'm glad it's not me. Obama may in time be remembered as a great president. Trump will not.

[bamber]

Most of the words a phrases I used in that last post mean that I am probably flagged now by the government under the terms of the regulation of investigatory powers act, which is now law, and which is perfectly summed up by Frankie Boyle.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/10/frankie-boyle-theresa-may-internet-surveillance

Edited December 3, 2016 by bamber

[russycarps]

8 hours ago, bamber said:

The thing that complicates this is the simple fact that the guys targeted in these "extrajudicial killings" are not the good guys. They are mostly murderers, serial murders, mass murders, rapists, serial rapists, instigators of murder and rape and suicide bombing. Be-headers, serial be-headers, instigators of be-heading, for example.

Now, here's a thought experiment, I give you the keys to my time travel drone, and I send you back to the summer and give you control of the drone hovering above an apartment block in Nice, where one occupant has hired a truck and is going to use it to kill 86 people the next day, You have your finger on the button. Do you press it? Other innocent people may die if you do, but you will save 86 lives?

This is the dilemma that Obama and H. Clinton have faced on a regular basis for the last eight years.

I'm glad it's not me. Obama may in time be remembered as a great president. Trump will not.

What? No of course I wouldn't kill innocent people just to kill a bad guy. Are you insane?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

41 minutes ago, russycarps said:

What? No of course I wouldn't kill innocent people just to kill a bad guy. Are you insane?

Even if doing so would save far more innocent lives than would be lost taking out the bad guy?

Edited December 3, 2016 by Zac Quinn

[russycarps]

13 minutes ago, Zac Quinn said:

Even if doing so would save far more innocent lives than would be lost taking out the bad guy?

You figure out a way of doing it without killing the innocents.

Drones are used because they are cheap. That's it.

The 'dilemma' Hillary and Obama face is how to cut costs. Bamber is a murder apologist. Hopefully because of ignorance rather than intent.

[Ommadawn]

10 hours ago, bamber said:

Obama may in time be remembered as a great president. Trump will not.

Don't you think it's a tad early to be making such sweeping statements?