Can I have a Budget rant please?

[Crystal Waters]

Which bit of it pissed you off the most?

Having reflected for 24 hours, I think it's the removal of grants for students from the poorest backgrounds which is sticking in my throat the most. Though most of it pissed me off.

[Spindles]

The reduction in in-work benefits.  I know that the argument is that tax credits are subsidising corporate profits, but that doesn't help families right now who are already struggling and are now facing a further reduction in income.  As ever it is the lowest paid who get hit the hardest.  The fact that it comes with a corporate tax cut and further breaks for the wealthiest only compounds the issue.

 

I'll be interested to see whether the 1% cut in social rents actually comes to pass or if that is just hot air.  As a council tenant I've seen record breaking rent rises every year for a decade, with the lowest annual increase being 5% and the highest being 15%.  My rent has doubled since 2008 and the rent increases in the social housing sector is a story that no one ever picked up on.

[stuartbert two hats]

The cap on increasing benefits as families grow. I know the argument that working people have to choose whether they can afford to have another child, so why should those on benefits, but that doesn't help the children. Ultimately looking after the children in the country is more important to me than some experiment to keep these families in their place.

Even The Telegraph (I found it on a train, honest) said that the government hadn't actually done any research into whether this would have any effect on the decision to have more children.

Fuckers

[stuartbert two hats]

Although I genuinely don't know what to I thinking about this hike in the minimum wage. Even given that it only applied for those over 25, I think I might like it. This is strange for me because I'm generally convinced that they're evil.

[Sawdusty surfer]

I live in a wooden shack in a lovely place with a few other like minded families and our rent is very low. I don't earn much but do OK. The budget won't affect me at all.I don't claim anything as I like to be independent.

 

  But I feel sick to the stomach at what the government have done. 

 

  First Pure Tory budget since '96 and true to form they have screwed the poor. They set up all their ducks up in a row first by vilifying 'benefit scroungers' over the last few years knowing that when they finally got their chance to hit the poor many 'normal' people would think that they deserved it.  

[Crystal Waters]

Although I genuinely don't know what to I thinking about this hike in the minimum wage. Even given that it only applied for those over 25, I think I might like it. This is strange for me because I'm generally convinced that they're evil.

For me, this is a massive con trick. In essence, I think he/they have said they'll raise the minimum wage by 2020 to the level of what is considered a living wage today?

[ICGenie]

Although I genuinely don't know what to I thinking about this hike in the minimum wage. Even given that it only applied for those over 25, I think I might like it. This is strange for me because I'm generally convinced that they're evil.

As The Poke put it, it's not making the minimum wage a "living wage". It's just a rebranding exercise.

For me it's the combination of cutting benefits for working people with the raising of the inheritance tax threshold to "rich bugger" levels. All in this together my arse...

[Spindles]

The labour party had proposed raising the minimum wage to £7.85 and rising to ensure a living wage, the tory answer is basically a watered down version of this designed to mask the far more damaging cuts elsewhere.  It might appear to improve the lot of those on minimum wage, but coupled with tax credit downgrades it's actually more likely to see those same people worse off on the whole.

[DeanoL]

Although I genuinely don't know what to I thinking about this hike in the minimum wage. Even given that it only applied for those over 25, I think I might like it. This is strange for me because I'm generally convinced that they're evil.

 

They are. The problem is they won this election on "paying off the country credit card". Remember they promised to clear the deficit in their last term, failed, and so ran this election on "give us two years to finish what we started". Now it's already become three years. And it's obvious why: if they do clear the deficit, they've got no election campaign for 2020. So we're going to get five years of these weird-ass Tory budgets that do a bit to fuck the poor and help the rich, but also don't introduce any huge spending cuts, lest we end up back in the black.

 

Either that or we'll do a war at some point to break the bank again.

[Pinhead]

The first few months of pure right wing rule have seen a rapid number of policy changes that read like a list of lobbyist IOU promises and requests being worked through in compensation for the support they gave them before the election.

Even worse than the latest chapter of Mein Kampf however was this I learned yesterday. There is no government, only a corporate plutocracy...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/07/corporate-welfare-a-93bn-handshake

[zero000]

The living wage thing is a joke. It was calculated on the assumption that people were receiving tax credits, now they're not it's even more of a hit. It was a cynical ploy by Osbourne to throw Labour of balance and mask the nastiness of the welfare cuts.

It's great to say that we shouldn't subsidies companies to pay their staff shit wages, but where is the guarantee that wages will rise to meet the tax credit gap. Politically it was very astute, but in reality it's the same old Tory bollocks we've had for the past 5 years.

The only plus for the budget was a kick in the goolies for buy to let landlords by getting rid of their tax relief. 

[Crystal Waters]

The reduction in in-work benefits.  I know that the argument is that tax credits are subsidising corporate profits, but that doesn't help families right now who are already struggling and are now facing a further reduction in income.  As ever it is the lowest paid who get hit the hardest.  The fact that it comes with a corporate tax cut and further breaks for the wealthiest only compounds the issue.

 

I'll be interested to see whether the 1% cut in social rents actually comes to pass or if that is just hot air.  As a council tenant I've seen record breaking rent rises every year for a decade, with the lowest annual increase being 5% and the highest being 15%.  My rent has doubled since 2008 and the rent increases in the social housing sector is a story that no one ever picked up on.

Agree. From what I can see, some of the poorest working families will be £1,000 or so a year worse off. That is massive.

I didn't know about the size of those rent rises.

[efcfanwirral]

They are. The problem is they won this election on "paying off the country credit card". Remember they promised to clear the deficit in their last term, failed, and so ran this election on "give us two years to finish what we started". Now it's already become three years. And it's obvious why: if they do clear the deficit, they've got no election campaign for 2020. So we're going to get five years of these weird-ass Tory budgets that do a bit to fuck the poor and help the rich, but also don't introduce any huge spending cuts, lest we end up back in the black.

 

Either that or we'll do a war at some point to break the bank again.

 

the 2020 thing is hilarious, because really with inflation won't this new minimum wage just be worth practically the same?

 

I agree on the war thing, its the only thing that will fix the broken international system unfortunately. In our lifetime I reckon

[tweed1981]

I think I'm more annoyed about their plan to put the hunting ban to a new vote and allow the use of packs of Dogs. It's 2015 and they want to go back to ripping defenceless animals apart, you'd think they would have better things to worry about and would just leave it be.

[Douzeper]

£9 an hour by 2020, I would bloody hope so!

 

Doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

[Crystal Waters]

I think I'm more annoyed about their plan to put the hunting ban to a new vote and allow the use of packs of Dogs. It's 2015 and they want to go back to ripping defenceless animals apart, you'd think they would have better things to worry about and would just leave it be.

And that isn't even going through parliament, they are amending via statutory instrument.

[efcfanwirral]

I think I'm more annoyed about their plan to put the hunting ban to a new vote and allow the use of packs of Dogs. It's 2015 and they want to go back to ripping defenceless animals apart, you'd think they would have better things to worry about and would just leave it be.

 

As horrible as it is, I feel this is a distraction that they are all too happy to let people get furious over, so they can get on with screwing the country unchallenged. It makes the headlines every time and its disproportionate to the big issues that are happening in the world/country...which suits them completely. 

[Spindles]

Either that or we'll do a war at some point to break the bank again.

You can definitely expect a rising spend in Libya, Syria and Iraq over the next 5 years.  Whether it will be millions of pounds spent on airdropping their rich friends' companies products (purchased at way over market value) or pushing more money towards the arms industry, they'll keep spending more and more there.

[frostypaw]

For me, this is a massive con trick. In essence, I think he/they have said they'll raise the minimum wage by 2020 to the level of what is considered a living wage today?

It is exactly that - I'm kinda impressed really, it looks all nice and shiny and pretty but it's a typical tory fuck you to the poor

I mean the ideas are sound, but there's so much slack time in the way it's implemented it'll end up meaning nothing by the time it comes around and the great wealth-transfer continues unabated.

I'm genuinely starting to wonder if they're not actually evil per se but instead incredibly naive and gullible - I mean the sounds are right is that because they think they're doing right and just blind to how the machinery behind ends up chewing out a thin sliver of people with every turn of the wheel? Their good intentions providing the grease to slide in the stake?

Dunno. I keep waiting for them to have that Mitchell and Webb moment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY

[Crystal Waters]

I'm finding it hard to articulate how I feel about this ... it's all crap. I think the removal of the student grant for the poorest families was the underlining bit for me. Not only will we keep you under, we will make sure your children stay there too.

[jonodillieono]

Which bit of it pissed you off the most?

Having reflected for 24 hours, I think it's the removal of grants for students from the poorest backgrounds which is sticking in my throat the most. Though most of it pissed me off.

Right now if you're in 40k worth of debt of student loans you need to earn a minimum of £35,814.81 on average for 30 years from the moment you leave uni, this is completely ignoring inflation so it'll likely be closer to 40 grand a year average you need to earn to pay it all back before it gets written off which is highly unlikely

 

Now he's scrapped maintenance grants students will be in 50k worth of debt and it'll require a minimum of £39,518.51 earned on average for 30 years to pay it off so with inflation it's probably closer to 45 grand a year from the moment you leave uni you'd need to be earning if you want any chance of completely paying off your student loan before it gets scrapped. Let's be honest that's not going to happen for the vast majority of people so it's not really saving the government much money at all

 

Both of these scenarios are assuming you pay back 9% of what you earn of £21k a year which is what it currently is (there's also inflation involved but that's depending on how much you earn and the current rate of inflation)

 

Seeing £50k worth of debt (even if it is highly likely to get scrapped before you pay it) will also be a massive put off for less well off families as well so I'd imagine we can expect to see a drop off of working class students at Universities

In short it's not really saving the government any money cause in the vast majority of the cases the debt will be wiped a long time before the graduate has a chance to pay it off completely but it is acting as a barrier to stop the working class enter higher education

It's disgusting, I'd understand them doing it if it's trying to save money but it's not even doing that, it's just straight up "fuck the poor, we don't want those filthy commoners clogging up our Universities"

[musky]

The higher minimum wage is political manoeuvring of the highest order by George Osborne. It's intended to push Labour to the right by stealing a march on their policies.

Although most pundits have commented on the fact that it's the poorest in society that will lose the most, it seems very few have mentioned the 3 year gap between the phasing out of working benefits and the introduction of the higher rate minimum wage. Nor have I seen any focus on the age at which they apply. It's very likely we'll see a big increase in employment for those below 25 (no bad thing) but higher levels for those older, and more likely to have higher outgoings.

All in all, the biggest winner of the budget is George Osborne.

[russycarps]

The higher minimum wage is political manoeuvring of the highest order by George Osborne. It's intended to push Labour to the right by stealing a march on their policies.

Although most pundits have commented on the fact that it's the poorest in society that will lose the most, it seems very few have mentioned the 3 year gap between the phasing out of working benefits and the introduction of the higher rate minimum wage. Nor have I seen any focus on the age at which they apply. It's very likely we'll see a big increase in employment for those below 25 (no bad thing) but higher levels for those older, and more likely to have higher outgoings.

All in all, the biggest winner of the budget is George Osborne.

 

 

Yep, you have to give credit to gideon it was an absolutely genius budget.

 

The only single shred of comfort is he now seems more likely to succeed cameron than johnson.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

It's nice to see the buy to let chancers are taking a hit.

[maelzoid]

For anyone who thinks £9 an hour in 2020 is basically the same as £7.48 this year, you do not understand inflation at all.  Currently little more than 0% which means that £9 in 2020 will certainly be worth more than £8 in today's money which is more then the living wage foundation say is needed (currently £7.85).  Such an increase in minimum wage has to be introduced gradually to allow businesses to keep up, but if stuck to, this rise is (from about £6.50? pre-budget) will make an incredible change to a lot of people.

 

I know its cool to bash the Tories (and I've never voted for them) but this is one of the best policies they've ever enacted.

 

That said, I am fully aware of its failings - it doesn't consider London residents, it doesn't include people under 25.  And the benefit cuts are appalling because they're happening right now, when the rise to the living wage will take 5 years to fully kick in.