Can I have a Budget rant please?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

And so today Labour are backing the reduced benefit cap and child tax credits cut.

They're all the same.

Fortunately Burnham and Corbyn have made it clear the current 'leadership of the opposition' aren't representative of the party they'd lead. Fear the damage is being done now though, as though we haven't learnt the lessons of 2010 at all.

[grandadcollective]

And so today Labour are backing the reduced benefit cap and child tax credits cut.

They're all the same.

I can't see Corbyn agreeing with that...but who knows. He seems like the only conviction candidate in the race. I have registered and voted for him. I hope he gets in. I think the mood will swing nationally.

I am a green voter of late but if Labour become a more socially aware and generally progressive party they could win me back.

[arcade fireman]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/greens-would-back-tory-zac-to-be-mayor-over-labour-says-peer-10241968.html

 

This pretty much ended any support I might have had for the Greens. Like their title suggests, they're far too much of a single issue party. 

 

I think climate change is a very important issue, but they seem to prioritise it far ahead of almost everything else, and are willing to even back Tories. 

 

Corbyn has absolutely no chance of swinging the mood nationally either. England is very different politically to Scotland - particularly the target seats Labour needs to win - and we would see absolutely no SNP style swing. 

[Titters2]

You have to admire the way they're getting away with it.

Elected on language of being the party of 'working people' and 'aspiration'... Executing a budget that gives to the working masses with one hand, and takes away twice as much with the other.

Tax breaks for the highest earners (corporation tax cut = bigger profits = greater share to those with the most investments and inheritance tax cuts blatantly aimed at the rich). Cuts to the aspirational that could use help - especially poor-background students.

Even things like the rise in Insurance Premium Tax will hit the poorest, as it is a higher proportion of their outgpings.

AND it is swallowed up, thanks to the mass media who are desperate to curry favour to help them stay afloat.

It is a fantastic example of doing one thing, and selling a different story, which is being accepted as the truth.

I'm not sure if the lack of opposition is because Labour are going through a leadership campaign, are struggling to get their voices heard, or if they aren't fighting hard enough. I certainly haven't seen anyone really calling out the government on their decisions, and certainly not a viable alternative.

Why not give businesses a corporation tax break IF they sign up to a real living wage?

Why not means test inheritance tax based on the wealth of the person receiving the gift?

Why no increase in minimum wage for u25s to help 'aspiration'??

Simple answers, none of the above help make mid-high income earners happier, and therefore put the 'in it for myself' vote at risk.

The Tories have been sly and clever with this budget, but the real frustration is the lack of voices challenging them.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Titters2

[frostypaw]

Agreed on so much.

I'm not sure if the lack of opposition is because Labour are going through a leadership campaign, are struggling to get their voices heard, or if they aren't fighting hard enough. I certainly haven't seen anyone really calling out the government on their decisions, and certainly not a viable alternative.

...

The Tories have been sly and clever with this budget, but the real frustration is the lack of voices challenging them.

There's a very sad answer to this - there was a dissenting voice and the nation pretty much crushed them underheel. They actually preferred the even more hysterical voice of Farage.

The psychology of why I'll be pondering for years. Artful manipulation and reductionist focus.... but I think only possible with the media monopolies we have, if only there were commissions that could sort that sorta thing out :/

[Titters2]

The monopolies are a massive barrier, but event the left leaning media (such as the Guardian) or the outlets providing the chance for opposition voices seemed to just say "we don't like this" without providing an alternative.

I would suggest (based on a hunch, nothing more) that the govt have positioned themselves so that if any of the big newspapers turn on them, they'll feed their rivals... At a time where every newspaper is in fear of falling circulation, they toe the line.

I'm also stumped by the psychology - if you come up with any theories I'm all ears!

[Rose-Colored Boy]

I would suggest (based on a hunch, nothing more) that the govt have positioned themselves so that if any of the big newspapers turn on them, they'll feed their rivals... At a time where every newspaper is in fear of falling circulation, they toe the line.

And similarly the BBC are being so spineless at the moment that the papers know the more they suck up to the party in power the less threat the BBC websites are going to pose to their own.

[frostypaw]

The BBC have pretty much been put on report by this and the former government. Censorship by threat of funding reduction - they don't dare be so controversial, and as such are useless. That's precisely what we need them to do

I'm also stumped by the psychology - if you come up with any theories I'm all ears!

Currently running on the idea that they've instilled the desperate rat mentality - keeping the idea that the ship is about to sink so everyone for themselves despite their good intentions on the way to the polling box.

[grandadcollective]

I would disagree the Greens are a one issue party. Granted the main thrust is pro environment in the same way as Tories are economy first. But they are a party who would seek to address social parity by the redistribution of wealth and support the NHS. They see a green economy as a strong economy.

What have Labour been about this last few years? Same as the Tories really. "what can we say to sway the floater?"

[grandadcollective]

The BBC have pretty much been put on report by this and the former government. Censorship by threat of funding reduction - they don't dare be so controversial, and as such are useless. That's precisely what we need them to do

Currently running on the idea that they've instilled the desperate rat mentality - keeping the idea that the ship is about to sink so everyone for themselves despite their good intentions on the way to the polling box.

This and a reliance on the traditional unspoken xenophobia of far to many English. I used to live in a far more ethnically diverse town and it was never an issue. But now when I visit home race and immigration are the hot topics. Add to that the scroungers polemic and it becomes an angry and unthinking mess. I am gobsmacked that folks I know, who came to anti fascist rallies and broke up bnp marches with are voting Tory!

[Rose-Colored Boy]

What have Labour been about this last few years? Same as the Tories really. "what can we say to sway the floater?"

Only if you haven't been listening.

[grandadcollective]

Only if you haven't been listening.

Oh I have. Labour is my natural home. I haven't moved away from the party but the party away from me so to speak.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

The BBC have pretty much been put on report by this and the former government. Censorship by threat of funding reduction - they don't dare be so controversial, and as such are useless. That's precisely what we need them to do

.

As much as I adore both the NHS and BBC to the end of the earth, maybe it needs one or both to disappear for middle-England to realise what a bunch of shits this lot are. "You don't know what you've got til it's gone" etc. It certainly needs something dramatic to happen and I don't want another banking collapse

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Oh I have. Labour is my natural home. I haven't moved away from the party but the party away from me so to speak.

I apologise. I thought making equality the broad focus for the last few years was the best thing they've them come up with since I started school, it's the reason I joined. Shame Harriet and Liz are doing their respective bests to abandon it now mind. Edited July 12, 2015 by Zac Quinn

[grandadcollective]

Never with any real substance. No strong stance on the whole from my point of view. No real moves to oppose or offer a clear alternative. BUT I think Corbyn does. His tune hasn't changed and that is a labour party I can agree with.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Rather Jezza lost in 2020 than Kendall won, I'll say that.

[CHRLY]

Rather Jezza lost in 2020 than Kendall won, I'll say that.

Rather Blair than Cameron. Kendall is a shite alternative, sure, but if she's the most likely to be elected (which she might not be), she's still preferable to the Tories. Whilst I like Corbyn most out of the options, he won't be elected. It isn't nice to say but I think for Labour to win the next GE they need to move back towards the centre, that's where the votes are, unfortunately.

Edited July 12, 2015 by CHRLY

[mattiloy]

yeah its the working tax credits for me.

 

they're passing the book onto businesses to increase the wages they pay workers but the main means of negotiating pay rises between workers and the boardroom are unions. unfortunately the tory party also completely neutered those same unions some time ago (and continues to berate and chastise them when they do attempt to use their bargaining power by striking) so the upshot is that the companies will continue to pay their workers derisory wages with impunity and now the workers also don't have a government prepared to compensate them for this.

 

its a lose lose system for the poorest.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Kendall is a shite alternative, sure, but if she's the most likely to be elected (which she might not be), she's still preferable to the Tories..

She's acting so economy-centric that I'm not even sure there's that much difference I realise she may be exaggerating to get across her "I'm the candidate who'll say what the party doesn't necessarily want to hear" spiel but it isn't working. Although she looked so disheartened at yesterday's hustings that I wouldn't bet against her either changing tack or dropping out soon, to be honest. Long way to go yet in any case.

[frostypaw]

If they move back to centre they'll continue to not get my vote - they need to change the narrative, get back to fighting their corner rather than joining in the great kow-tow

Sadly the current lot in charge don't seem to have the vision, too much fear of losing votes - no real belief in themselves

[CHRLY]

I suppose - and I suspect this is where we differ - I just want to see the Labour candidate who's most likely to win a GE become leader, and if that's some Blair-ite then so be it.

I am very left in my thinking, by the way. I'm just looking at the situation realistically. That said, I can fully see your reason for not voting for a more centre ground Labour, it's a shit situation we're in indeed.

In short: Tory-lite is still better than Tory-max, however grim that sounds.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Yeah, probably right, a LK administration wouldn't be as bad as five years of Osborne.. but it wouldn't be a country I'd want to live in either.

Best case scenario I can realistically see is Burnham gets it and then Osborne gets theirs. Would require Joe Public remembering it's the same Osborne they hated enough to boo at the Paralympics but I'd be prepared to gamble my last shred of optimism on said electorate not getting it so hopelessly wrong two elections in a row.

[frostypaw]

In short: Tory-lite is still better than Tory-max, however grim that sounds.

Look at the mess that got us lib dems into!

begrudgingly of the opinion now it's like ripping a plaster off - it's going to have to hurt to make the scared masses want to listen to something else. We'll need to lose our liberties, our human rights and our privacy, see them start tearing apart the communities that don't toe the line and watch them crush the riots and then a message of hope might sound more appealing than keeping on lashing ourselves on their word - we're accelerating back around towards the end of the last tory fuckaroo

time is linear, memory a stranger and history is for fools.

or i'll be wrong and their tiny majority will start it's own tiny roar, fingers crossed. maybe it has to go this way

[Spindles]

Loving the roger Waters quote, thought no one else bought that album.

I'll be voting for corbyn in the leadership ballot, can't vote for the other candidates in good conscience.

[phillyfaddle]

and workers better empowered against their bosses.

 

Unless you work in the public sector. 1% for the next 4 years =10 years of effective pay cuts. But then I look at what's just been inflicted on Greece by the Eurocrats....#ThisIsACoup.